[B-Greek] JN 10:20 hO PATHR hO DEDWKEN MOI PANTWN MEIZWN ESTIN

James Ernest j.d.ernest at bc.edu
Wed Jul 23 23:15:15 EDT 2008


OK, I had to look up a bigger chunk of context, but I think I see what
Cooper is getting at, and also (finally) what you were suggesting. In the
first example (Parmenides), we had

hH hUPOTHESIS hH EI POLLA ESTIN

Cooper says says EI POLLA ESTIN is appositive to hH hUPOTHESIS. (I said
attributive. Whatever.) Which hypothesis? --the EI POLLA ESTIN hypothesis.

In the second example (from Politicus), we have (implied):

THN EPISTHMHN THN EI DEI MANQANEIN H MH

Same deal. Which science? --the EI DEI MANQANEIN H MH science.

So you were wondering whether the Sinaiticus* reading in John 10:29 is
analogous:

hO PATHR [MOU] hO DEDWKEN MOI PANTWN MEIZWN ESTIN

Well, it doesn't look likely to me. In both of Cooper's examples, the noun
(hUPOTHESIS or EPISTHMH) refers to verbal content which has to be specified,
and Plato specifies it by spelling it out in the clause that is made
attributive (or appositive) to said noun by repetition of the article. "The
hypothesis that there are many things" and "the science of whether or not
one ought to learn" make sense to me--each noun is defined by the following
clause, which in each case begins with a conjunction ("that" or "whether",
EI). In John, there's no conjunction, and the clause ("he gave to me") does
not define the noun ("father"). PATHR is not a noun that indicates
discourse.

James Ernest



2008/7/23 Elizabeth Kline <kline_dekooning at earthlink.net>:

> Thank you James,
> some comments below.
>
> <snip>
> Cooper notes (cryptically) that he is not following the standard text of
> Plato. There are other examples and I have extracted one of them from TLG
> rather than try and type it.
>
> Polit", 1.304.2.1
> ἢ ἐκείνας ταύτης, ἢ ταύτην δεῖν ἐπιτροπεύουσαν ἄρχειν 2 συμπασῶν τῶν ἄλλων;
>
> H EKEINAS TAUTHS, H TAUTHN DEIN EPITROPEUOUSAN ARCEIN 2 SUMPASWN TWN ALLW;
>
> {ΝΕ. ΣΩ.} Ταύτην ἐκείνων.
> TAUTHN EKEINWN.
>
> {ΞΕ.} «Τὴν» εἰ δεῖ μανθάνειν ἢ μὴ τῆς μανθανομένης καὶ 5 διδασκούσης ἄρα σύ
> γε ἀποφαίνῃ δεῖν ἡμῖν ἄρχειν;
>
> THN EI DEI MANQANEIN H MH THS MANQANOMENHS KAI 5 DIDASKOUSHS ARA SU GE
> APOFAINHi DEIN hHMIN ARCEIN
>
> {ΝΕ. ΣΩ.} Σφόδρα γε.
>
> SFODRA GE.
>
> {ΞΕ.} Καὶ τὴν εἰ δεῖ πείθειν ἄρα ἢ μὴ τῆς δυναμένης 8 πείθειν;
>
> KAI THN EI DEI PEIQEIN ARA H MH THS DUNAMENHS 8 PEIQEIN
>
> Cooper appears to be focusing on THN EI DEI MANQANEIN H MH ... KAI THN EI
> DEI PEIQEIN [ARA] H MH (Cooper omits ARA).
>
> <snip>
>


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