[B-Greek] Special use of the dative James 4:17
Carl Conrad
cwconrad2 at mac.com
Sun Nov 23 06:45:52 EST 2008
On Nov 23, 2008, at 12:11 AM, Tom Moore wrote:
> Εἰδότι οὖν καλὸν ποιεῖν καὶ μὴ
> ποιοῦντι, ἁμαρτία αὐτῷ ἐστιν. [James
> 4:17]
> EIDOTI OUN KALON POIEIN KAI MH POIOUNTI, hAMARTIA AUTWi ESTIN
>
> Regarding the "dreaded expletive it," why isn't Webb correct that
> hAMARIA is a predicate nominative, and the subject of ESTIN the
> implied action of not doing what one knows is right (MH KALON POIEIN)?
>
> (Isn't this what Smyth [933] would call a "quasi-impersonal" verb?)
No, it isn't. Smyth §933 is referring to auxiliaries taking the
infinitive where we can understand the infinitive as the subject of
the "quasi-impersonal" verb, e.g. DOKEI, PREPEI, EXESTI, PREPEI,
PROSHKEI, FAINETAI, CRH. In our text (James 4:17) the only way that we
could understand hAMARTIA as a predicate nominative would be to supply
as an "implicit" subject of ESTIN, MH POIEIN KALON EIDOTA POIEIN (the
participle would, I think, need to be accusative). People seem to
want to offer a "literal" translation, "It is a sin for him to know
the good and/but not to do it." But the corresponding Greek for that,
hWS EMOIGE DOKEI, would be, TO KALON EIDENAI KAI MH POIEIN hAMARTIA
AUTWi ESTIN, in which case TO KALON EIDENAI KAI MH POIEIN would be the
subject.
I think, however, that those who wish to offer such a "literal"
translation are thinking about this sentence as if it were formulated
in an English construction. The so-called "dreaded expletive 'it'" is
not an "unspeakable" word to be bleeped out; "expletive" is the
grammatical term in English for a place-holder functioning as an
imaginary subject, as in "It's me" (which I learned as "It is I" more
than half a century ago). What throws English-speaking readers about
the Greek sentence in James 4:17 is the fact that the entire
construction is cast in the dative case with a single indicative
primary verb ESTIN.
Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
>
>
>> -------Original Message-------
>> From: Mark Cain <mark at markcain.com>
>> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Special use of the dative James 4:17
>> Sent: Nov 20 '08 21:07
>>
> [snip]
>>
>> The warning in the text is explicitly directed to Group #3 which is
>> what
>> Webb Mealy posits but which is challenged by Carl Conrad. Couldn't
>> we use
>> the simple dative as indirect object and the existential of EIMI to
>> get the
>> stilted translation "A sin exists to him" or perhaps better "It is
>> a sin to
>> him." ?? (Sorry, Carl, for the dreaded "it")
>>
>> Mark Cain
>> Sarasota, FL USA
>>
> [snip]
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: b-greek-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org
>>> [mailto:b-greek-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Carl Conrad
>>> Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 2:04 AM
>>> To: Webb Mealy
>>> Cc: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
>>> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Special use of the dative James 4:17
>>>
>>>
>>> On Nov 20, 2008, at 11:03 AM, Webb Mealy wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'd call it a dative of respect or relation, and English it as
>>>> "it's
>>>> sin for
>>>> him", making hAMARTIA a predicate nom. It's sin in his regard, or
>>>> it's sin
>>>> in relation to him. James's assumption is that the thing not done
>>>> is
>>>> not sin
>>>> in relation to the person who *does not* know the good thing that
>>>> should be
>>>> done and fails to do it. In relation to that person the "not doing"
>>>> is not
>>>> sin.
>>>
>>> If hAMARTIA is a predicate noun, then what (on earth) is the subject
>>> of ESTIN? It cannot be KALON POIEIN because that is complementary to
>>> EIDOTI? The "It" in your English version is an expletive that
>>> doesn't
>>> represent anything in the Greek.
>>>
>>> Carl W. Conrad
>>> Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
>>>
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