[B-Greek] Aorist Future - Jn 13:31-32
Eddie Mishoe
edmishoe at yahoo.com
Thu Oct 2 01:59:25 EDT 2008
Elizabeth:
I don't think you have established any "future" temporal reference in this passage. That seems to me to be the first step. All one reads here is that the Son and Father have been glorified. (You appear to be assigning this statement to Christ into the future and then asking how is that possible?) Where are you finding some "future" reference in this passage?
Eddie Mishoe
Pastor
--- On Wed, 10/1/08, Elizabeth Kline <kline_dekooning at earthlink.net> wrote:
> From: Elizabeth Kline <kline_dekooning at earthlink.net>
> Subject: [B-Greek] Aorist Future - Jn 13:31-32
> To: "greek B-Greek" <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
> Date: Wednesday, October 1, 2008, 7:37 PM
> Over the last week or so I have been looking at
> "futuristic aorists",
> including the treatment in all the standard grammars and
> the notes in
> commentaries on the texts cited in the grammars. To narrow
> the focus I
> decided to eliminate some catagories of examples including
> aorists
> used in the apodosis of a conditional statement and so
> called
> prophectic aorists. Jn 13:31-32 is one of the remaining
> examples
> after the elimination [note that Alford calls this a
> prophectic aorist].
>
> JOHN 13:31 hOTE OUN EXHLQEN, LEGEI IHSOUS: NUN EDOXASQH hO
> hUIOS TOU
> ANQRWPOU KAI hO QEOS EDOXASQH EN AUTWi: 32 EI hO QEOS
> EDOXASQH EN
> AUTWi, KAI hO QEOS DOXASEI AUTON EN AUTWi, KAI EUQUS
> DOXASEI AUTON.
>
> More popular than Alford's prophectic aorist was the
> notion that
> EDOXASQH refers to the immediate past, something that just
> happend. I
> don't how this can work since the semantic feature
> 'end
> point' (R.Buth) is lacking. Others suggested that the
> EDOXASQH refers
> to either the present or the future from a perspective in
> the future
> as if it were already accompished. This may be just another
> way of
> stating Alford's position. After sifting through all
> the "futuristic
> aorists" I was able to locate this one seems to be the
> most
> interesting example since both aorist and futures of the
> same verb are
> used in the immediate context. I am not sure what to make
> of NUN
> EDOXASQH ... hO QEOS EDOXASQH EN AUTWi, is this a genuine
> aorist with
> future reference? R.Buth will say no :-). Any other
> opinons?
>
>
> G.B. Caird wrote a relevant article or two which I
> don't have on hand:
>
> CAIRD, G.B.
> 1968a The Glory of God in the Fourth Gospel: An Exercise in
> Biblical
> Semantics , in NTS 15 (1968-69) 265-277.
> 1968b Towards a Lexicon of the Septuagint. I , in JTS 19
> (1968)
> 453-475; = R.A. KRAFT (ed.) 1972, pp. 110-132.
> 1969 Towards a Lexicon of the Septuagint. II , in JTS 20
> (1969)
> 21-40; = R.A. KRAFT (ed.) 1972, pp. 133-152.
>
> Carson (John, Pillar) cites Caird as claiming that passive
> aorist
> EDOXASQH was the 'expected' manner of rendering
> NKBD (KBD niphil). I
> did a little research on this found very few places (4?
> cited below)
> in the LXX where the niphil of KBD was rendered with a
> passive of
> DOXAZW or ENDOXAZOMAI. I am not certain my search methods
> were solid
> and would welcome being corrected on this. Someone who has
> Caird's
> articles might want to comment on his argument.
>
> 2SAM. 6:22 KAI APOKALUFQHSOMAI ETI hOUTWS KAI ESOMAI
> ACREIOS EN
> OFQALMOIS SOU KAI META TWN PAIDISKWN hWN EIPAS ME
> DOXASQHNAI
> 2KINGS 14:10 TUPTWN EPATAXAS THN IDOUMAIAN KAI EPHREN SE hH
> KARDIA SOU
> ENDOXASQHTI KAQHMENOS EN TWi OIKWi SOU KAI hINA TI ERIZEIS
> EN KAKIAi
> SOU KAI PESHi SU KAI IOUDAS META SOU
> IS. 43:4 AF hOU ENTIMOS EGENOU ENANTION MOU EDOXASQHS KAGW
> SE HGAPHSA
> KAI DWSW ANQRWPOUS POLLOUS hUPER SOU KAI ARCONTAS hUPER THS
> KEFALHS SOU
> EZEK. 39:13 KAI KATORUXOUSIN AUTOUS PAS hO LAOS THS GHS KAI
> ESTAI
> AUTOIS EIS ONOMASTON hHi hHMERAi EDOXASQHN LEGEI KURIOS
>
>
> Elizabeth Kline
>
>
>
>
> ---
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