[B-Greek] Pronunciation of Upsilon

Kevin Riley klriley at alphalink.com.au
Thu Oct 16 00:01:30 EDT 2008


Louis,

It is hard to be exact about a sound no longer used in Greek, but given the
fact that both "I" = [i] and "OU" = [u] are tense, it is likely that Greek 
u" was pronounced as [y], not [Y].  So you are correct to go with the [i] as
the unrounded version, or equally, start with [u] and move the vowel forward
to a position near [i].  You still end up with the correct high, front
rounded (probably tense/close) vowel.  The sound is near enough identical to
the French "u" = [y] sound or the German "u" umlaut = [y] sound that either
would serve as an example.  Most people should have access to French or
German sound files.

BTW Fr Patrick has the process revered.  He ended up with a good Irish or
Gaelic "ao", but not the Greek "u" - you need to transpose his "oo" and "ee"
  You gave the best instructions for [y].

Kevin Riley
 
-------Original Message------- 
 
From: Louis Sorenson 
Date: 16/10/2008 2:21:29 PM 
 
Hello all again, 
 
I'm a little confused on the pronunciation of upsilon. Here are the
suggestions given by some people. 
 
Vasile STANCU: Prepare yourself to say "u" as in "bull" and set your lips
accordingly; 
- with the lips arranged in this setting, suddenly change your mind and say 
"I" as in "bit"; 
 
Fr Patrick B. O'Grady: Make an (American) oo sound with your tongue, but 
Stretch your lips as though making an ee sound! This is how I trained my 
Former German students. 
 
 
Emmanuel: There's an easier way, say "I" like in "it" and simply round your
lips, 
The final sound is [y]. In French, it's the sound that most of the English 
Speaking people struggle with. 
 
Louis (me): I have always understood that I should round my lips when I say 
oo", like 
In the word 'you', and while keeping my lips rounded (I.e. 'freezing my lips
) 
Then say [I] like in 'beat' or 'meet'. 
 
It seems all the above suggestions use a "lower" vowel or a less stressed
vowel: 
"bull" = English short "u" like in "but", "I" as in "bit" or "oo" like in 
foot". 
These are three different suggestions and my understanding is a fourth. 
All agree that the lips should be rounded, but the coloring of the vowel is
in question. 
So what is it? Correct me if any of the following signs are incorrect. 
IPA [I] (like 'meet') with rounding (Greek was heading in this direction) 
IPA [u] (like 'bull') with rounding = [ɔ] 
IPA [u:] (like 'boot') with rounding 
IPA [I] (like 'hit') with rounding = ?[I] 
 
It seems most of the suggestions sound like an ?unstressed? (bull, boot,
hit) rather 
Than ?stressed? Sound (you, leaf). 
 
http://weston.ruter.net/projects/ipa-chart/view/keyboard/ 
 
ø 
248 
00F8 
Front close-mid roundedœ 
339 
0153 
Front open-mid roundedɶ 
630 
0276 
Front open roundedʉ 
649 
0289 
Close central roundedʏ 
655 
028F 
Lax close front roundedɔ 
596 
0254 
Open-mid back rounded 
Looking 
At the chart at http://www.arts.gla.ac.uk/IPA/vowels.html, I see there 
Are three possible "front rounded" vowels: [y], [Y] and [ø]. Which of 
These is the correct IPA pronunciation and are there any sound files 
Available for the correct sound, with a number of different words. 
Also, is what would be the best and most up to date book on phonology 
Which has a good description of these sounds. 
 
Louis Sorenson 
 



More information about the B-Greek mailing list