[B-Greek] Pronunciation of Upsilon
Kevin Riley
klriley at alphalink.com.au
Thu Oct 16 00:01:30 EDT 2008
Louis,
It is hard to be exact about a sound no longer used in Greek, but given the
fact that both "I" = [i] and "OU" = [u] are tense, it is likely that Greek
u" was pronounced as [y], not [Y]. So you are correct to go with the [i] as
the unrounded version, or equally, start with [u] and move the vowel forward
to a position near [i]. You still end up with the correct high, front
rounded (probably tense/close) vowel. The sound is near enough identical to
the French "u" = [y] sound or the German "u" umlaut = [y] sound that either
would serve as an example. Most people should have access to French or
German sound files.
BTW Fr Patrick has the process revered. He ended up with a good Irish or
Gaelic "ao", but not the Greek "u" - you need to transpose his "oo" and "ee"
You gave the best instructions for [y].
Kevin Riley
-------Original Message-------
From: Louis Sorenson
Date: 16/10/2008 2:21:29 PM
Hello all again,
I'm a little confused on the pronunciation of upsilon. Here are the
suggestions given by some people.
Vasile STANCU: Prepare yourself to say "u" as in "bull" and set your lips
accordingly;
- with the lips arranged in this setting, suddenly change your mind and say
"I" as in "bit";
Fr Patrick B. O'Grady: Make an (American) oo sound with your tongue, but
Stretch your lips as though making an ee sound! This is how I trained my
Former German students.
Emmanuel: There's an easier way, say "I" like in "it" and simply round your
lips,
The final sound is [y]. In French, it's the sound that most of the English
Speaking people struggle with.
Louis (me): I have always understood that I should round my lips when I say
oo", like
In the word 'you', and while keeping my lips rounded (I.e. 'freezing my lips
)
Then say [I] like in 'beat' or 'meet'.
It seems all the above suggestions use a "lower" vowel or a less stressed
vowel:
"bull" = English short "u" like in "but", "I" as in "bit" or "oo" like in
foot".
These are three different suggestions and my understanding is a fourth.
All agree that the lips should be rounded, but the coloring of the vowel is
in question.
So what is it? Correct me if any of the following signs are incorrect.
IPA [I] (like 'meet') with rounding (Greek was heading in this direction)
IPA [u] (like 'bull') with rounding = [ɔ]
IPA [u:] (like 'boot') with rounding
IPA [I] (like 'hit') with rounding = ?[I]
It seems most of the suggestions sound like an ?unstressed? (bull, boot,
hit) rather
Than ?stressed? Sound (you, leaf).
http://weston.ruter.net/projects/ipa-chart/view/keyboard/
ø
248
00F8
Front close-mid roundedœ
339
0153
Front open-mid roundedɶ
630
0276
Front open roundedʉ
649
0289
Close central roundedʏ
655
028F
Lax close front roundedɔ
596
0254
Open-mid back rounded
Looking
At the chart at http://www.arts.gla.ac.uk/IPA/vowels.html, I see there
Are three possible "front rounded" vowels: [y], [Y] and [ø]. Which of
These is the correct IPA pronunciation and are there any sound files
Available for the correct sound, with a number of different words.
Also, is what would be the best and most up to date book on phonology
Which has a good description of these sounds.
Louis Sorenson
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