[B-Greek] Fw: 2 corinthians 2:4

George F Somsel gfsomsel at yahoo.com
Sat Oct 18 19:56:31 EDT 2008


καὶ τῇ ὑπερβολῇ τῶν ἀποκαλύψεων.διὸ ἵνα μὴ ὑπεραίρωμαι, ἐδόθη μοι σκόλοψ τῇ σαρκί, ἄγγελος σατανᾶ, ἵνα με κολαφίζῃ, ἵνα μὴ ὑπεραίρωμαι.
KAI THi hUPERBOLHi TWN APOKALUYEW, DIO hINA MH hUPERAIRWMAI, EDOQH MOI SKOLOY THi SARKI, AGGELOS SATANA, hINA ME KOLAFIZHi, hINA MH hUPERAIROMAI
.
I was thinking you were still speaking of word order with regard to 2 Cor 12.7.  The situation with regard to AGGELOS SATANA is different.  It is a nominative in apposition with SKOLOY THi SARKI which is the subject of EDOQH. 
. george
gfsomsel .


… search for truth, hear truth, 
learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth, 
defend the truth till death.


- Jan Hus
_________ 



----- Original Message ----
From: timothy mcmahon <targum at msn.com>
To: George F Somsel <gfsomsel at yahoo.com>; b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2008 6:33:47 PM
Subject: RE: 2 corinthians 2:4


George:

Of course you were referring to Moulton's grammar rather than the lexicon. Mea culpa!

On 2 Corinthians 12:7, though, I don't think the position of AGGELOS is what's being cited in Moulton's inclusion of that reference in the list. He says "final clause precedes for effect (2 Cor 12:7);" I believe he's referring here to the position of INA MH UPERAIROMAI preceding the main clause rather than to the position of AGGELOS outside the purpose clause.

tim

________________________________
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2008 15:19:59 -0700
From: gfsomsel at yahoo.com
Subject: Re: 2 corinthians 2:4
To: targum at msn.com; b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org


That wasn't Moulton & Milligan.  It was Moulton, Howard and Turner _A Grammar of New Testament Greek_.  There were some other examples of the same phenomenon in the passage I cited INCLUDING 2 Cor 12.7.  It seems to be a pattern frequently followed by Paul. 

 george
gfsomsel 


… search for truth, hear truth, 
learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth, 
defend the truth till death.


- Jan Hus
_________ 



----- Original Message ----
From: timothy mcmahon <targum at msn.com>
To: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
Cc: gfsomsel at yahoo.com
Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2008 5:45:31 PM
Subject: RE: 2 corinthians 2:4

George:

Thanks so much for the treatment from M&M.

I'm really looking, though, more specifically at the raising of the object from its own dependent clause into the main clause of the sentence. M&M's example of Galatians 2:10 fits this precisely; the others don't. Is there a name for this specific phenomenon? The reason I;'m asking is not just general grammatical curiosity (although the verse has always piqued my interest) but because I'm wondering if the same dynamic is at play in 2 Corinthians 12:7:
EDOQH MOI SKOLOY TH SARKI AGGELOS SATANA INA ME KOLAFIZH
to the effect this could be translated, "A thorn in the flesh was given me so that Satan's messenger could torment me" rather than taking AGGELOS SATANA in apposition to SKOLOY. I would then interpret the thorn to be Paul's physical condition, which would serve as the catalyst or occasion for Satan's messengers (taking AGGELOS as collective) to torment Paul more effectively.

tim

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