[B-Greek] Phil 2:6 Concessive or causal participle

brainout brainout at comcast.net
Tue Oct 21 17:50:49 EDT 2008


True, Dr. Wilkins.  My "He Who" reaction wasn't meant as a translation, but 
rather I quoted the thought which hit me when I read the verse.  I should have 
clarified that better.  Thank you.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dr. Don Wilkins" <drdwilkins at verizon.net>
To: "brainout" <brainout at comcast.net>
Cc: <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 4:12 PM
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Phil 2:6 Concessive or causal participle


| There could be a soundplay, which would allow the reader a little
| more freedom in interpretation. But I don't see the relative pronoun
| as making hUPARCWN attributive (like an articular participle). If
| that were the case, as in "He Who," then there would be no issue. I
| think you would have to have something like articular participle
| followed by the relative pronoun: "...which was also in Christ Jesus,
| the one who existed in the form of God, who did not regard..." (vv. 5
| f.).
|
| Don Wilkins
|
| On Oct 20, 2008, at 7:32 PM, brainout wrote:
|
| > Isn't Paul making soundplay on both hUPARCWN  and hARPAGMON?  When
| > I saw the
| > first email on this and read the verse, my thought was, "aha, He
| > Who was Always
| > the Beginning Never Considered", plus 1Tim2:5.  So it hit me like a
| > stressed
| > declaration of Godness, neither concessive nor causal.  That was my
| > gut
| > reaction, though, and I have no credentials to back it up.
| >
| > ----- Original Message -----
| > From: "Dr. Don Wilkins" <drdwilkins at verizon.net>
| > To: "Norman Wood" <nandk.wood at blueyonder.co.uk>
| > Cc: <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
| > Sent: Monday, October 20, 2008 3:52 PM
| > Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Phil 2:6 Concessive or causal participle
| >
| >
| > | To his credit, Wallace does not try to conceal the significance of
| > | theology in his interpretation, though he may be trying to downplay
| > | it. But I think his argument for the concessive meaning in ftnote 56
| > | (p. 635) with hARPAGMON as "something to be grasped for" is forced.
| > | It could even be risky from a theological viewpoint, given his
| > | explanation that Christ either "did not attempt to become equal to
| > | God" or "did not fell compelled to maintain his equality...."
| > | Doctrinally, Christ is always equal to God. I have not read O'Brien,
| > | but it seems to me that the causal interpretation basically is
| > "since
| > | he already had it, he did not consider it something to be obtained."
| > | As Plato might say, one does not need or lack what one already
| > | possesses. As Wallace points out, the concessive interpretation goes
| > | well with hARPAGMON as "something to be retained," so long as you
| > | take MORFHi QEOU to refer to one of the benefits (for want of a
| > | better word) of deity that was suppressed by the incarnation.
| > |
| > | But you need to sort out the difference between MORFHi QEOU and TO
| > | EINAI ISA QEWi. For the concessive view, consider taking the former
| > | to be more specific and the latter to be something like "equality in
| > | all respects," including MORFHi (with hARPAGMON as "retained"). For
| > | the causal, consider both to refer essentially to the same thing,
| > but
| > | the latter to be more of an abstraction, as if it could be placed in
| > | quotes within the text (taking hARPAGMON as "grasped for").
| > |
| > | Don Wilkins
| > |
| > | On Oct 20, 2008, at 4:24 AM, Norman Wood wrote:
| > |
| > | > Hi,
| > | >
| > | > Phil 2:6 has
| > | > "hOS EN MORFH QEOU hUPARCWN OUC hARPAGMON hHGHSATO TO EINAI ISA
| > QEOU"
| > | >
| > | > Wallace describes this occurence of hUPARCWN as concessive
| > | > p634Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics.
| > | > However O'Brien (NIGTC)p 214 argues that this ought not to be
| > | > rendered as concessive, but as causal. Could someone offer
| > | > suggestions on how to approach this problem?
| > | >
| > | > Best Wishes
| > | > Norman Wood
| > | > Scotland
| > | > ---
| > | > B-Greek home page: http://www.ibiblio.org/bgreek
| > | > B-Greek mailing list
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| > |
| > | ---
| > | B-Greek home page: http://www.ibiblio.org/bgreek
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| >
| 




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