[B-Greek] MNEIA hUMWN Phil 1:3
brainout
brainout at comcast.net
Tue Oct 21 18:12:56 EDT 2008
What if it's a genitive 'circle', process of generation (pun intended)? In the
last two years before my pastor retired, in the daily classes he went over and
over the subjective, objective, and plenary use of the genitive with respect to
the AGAPE TOU THEOU clauses in the Bible. The goal was to distinguish which was
which, since apparently the Drama Greek rule was that you couldn't have all of
them referenced, but only one rule controlling. Yet isn't the Bible's language
often multistoried, multi-entendre, and linked in a causal relation, to give you
a whole doctrine? So maybe subjective would be 'first in line' in a given
usage, but the other uses would follow? So yes, every time Paul thinks of them,
he is 'caused' to thank God, and at that point they are the 'object' of his
thanking, which then is a plenary completion, a circle of thanksgiving.
I look forward to more on the topic with extreme relish. Thank you.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Elizabeth Kline" <kline_dekooning at earthlink.net>
To: "greek B-Greek" <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 3:41 PM
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] MNEIA hUMWN Phil 1:3
|
| On Oct 20, 2008, at 10:54 AM, s Huovila wrote:
|
| > There is some debate about the meaning of MNEIA hUMWN in Phil. 1:3.
| > Some think
| > it is a subjective genitive and others that it is an objective
| > genitive. Did
| > Paul thank God for his memory of the Philippians or for the
| > Philippians'
| > remembering Paul in prison?
| >
| >
|
|
| PHIL. 1:3 EUCARISTW TWi QEWi MOU EPI PASHi THi MNEIAi hUMWN 4 PANTOTE
| EN PASHi DEHSEI MOU hUPER PANTWN hUMWN, META CARAS THN DEHSIN
| POIOUMENOS, 5 EPI THi KOINWNIAi hUMWN EIS TO EUAGGELION APO THS
| PRWTHS hHMERAS ACRI TOU NUN, 6 PEPOIQWS AUTO TOUTO, hOTI hO
| ENARXAMENOS EN hUMIN ERGON AGAQON EPITELESEI ACRI hHMERAS CRISTOU IHSOU:
|
| P.T.O'Brien (Phil. NIGTC pp. 56-60) makes a case for reading EPI PASHi
| THi MNEIAi hUMWN as causative rather than temporal. Some of O'Brien's
| hellenistic evidence from Josephus and Philo for EUCARISTW with EPI
| marking cause is cited below. He also cites 1Cor 1:4, 1Thes 3:9, and
| Phil 1:5.
|
| Josephus
| 1 AJ, 1.1.193.1
| AITIAN DE THS PERITOMHS hHMWN EN ALLOIS DHLWSW. PUQOMENWi DE 2
| hABRAMWi KAI PERI TOU ISMAHLOU, EI ZHSETAI, POLUCRONION TE APESHMAINEN
| hO QEOS KAI MEGALWN EQNWN PATERA. KAI hABRAMOS MEN EPI 4 TOUTOIS
| EUCARISTHSAS TWi QEWi PERITEMNETAI PARACRHMA KAI PANTES 5 hOI PAR
| AUTOU KAI hO PAIS ISMAHLOS, hOU KAT EKEINHN THN hHMERAN 6
| TRISKAIDEKATON ETOS ECONTOS AUTOS ENENHKOSTON PROS TOIS ENNEA 7 DIHGEN.
|
| Philo
| 24 SPEC, .1.1.283.1
|
| TA PAR hHMIN ADUNATA. DEI DH TON MELLONTA QUEIN SKEPTESQAI, MH EI 2 TO
| hIEREION AMWMON, ALL EI hH DIANOIA hOLOKLHROS AUTWi KAI PANTELHS 3
| KAQESTHKE. DIEREUNATW MENTOI KAI TAS AITIAS, hWN hENEKA ANAGEIN AXIOI
| 4 QUSIAS: HTOI GAR EUCARISTWN EPI PROUPHRGMENAIS EUERGESIAIS H
| BEBAIOTHTA PARONTWN H MELLONTWN KTHSIN AGAQWN AITOUMENOS H KAKWN
| PARONTWN 6 H PROSDOKWMENWN APOTROPHN, EF hOIS hAPASIN hUGEIAN KAI
| SWTHRIAN EKPORIZEIN OFEILEI TWi LOGISMWi. EITE GAR EPI PROUPHRGMENAIS
| EUCARISTEI, 2 MH ACARISTHSATW FAULOS GENOMENOS h SPOUDAIWi GAR
| EDOQHSAN hAI 3 CARITES h , EITE BEBAIOUMENOS TA PARONTA AGAQA KAI
| CRHSTA PERI TWN 4 MELLONTWN PROSDOKWN, AXION hAUTON PARECETW TWN
| EUPRAGIWN ASTEIOS 5 WN, EITE KAKWN TINWN FUGHN AITOUMENOS, MH DRATW
| KOLASEWN EPAXIA 6 KAI TIMWRIWN.
|
| Assuming that O'Brien has made his case for a causal reading of EPI +
| dative in Phil. 1:3, why does he also assume that this reading is
| invariably linked with the subjective reading of hUMWN in PI PASHi THi
| MNEIAi hUMWN? Why wouldn't the causal reading also accommodate an
| objective reading of hUMWN? Paul's remembrance of the Philipians being
| a reason/occasion for his giving thanks.
|
|
| Elizabeth Kline
|
|
|
|
| ---
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