[B-Greek] Musings over John 1:16

Margaret Sim margaret_sim at sil.org
Wed Apr 15 12:25:06 EDT 2009


Donald,
 Greetings from Scotland! I found your comments very interesting and it is 
true as Elizabeth says that 'M.Sim sees it as representational' (i.e. hOTI). 
Also I would agree with Ivor that verse 15 is an 'aside' with the hOTI of 
verse 16 referring back to 14 and supportng what is said there and 
elaborating on the 'grace' metioned there. Verse 17 also begins with hOTI 
but I would suggest that in that context it is introducing a well known 
saying (pure speculation of course) because of the clear parallelism in its 
form. You will have noticed that p66 has DE after XARIS in that verse.
With reference to  the linking of 7:35: I'm not convinced by this.  That 
verse is an echo of what Jesus had just said 'you will not find me' and hOTI 
introduces that 'echo'.
I have been very nervous about commenting to the B-Greek list but I hope 
this may not be completely useless.

Yours,

Margaret Sim

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Donald COBB" <docobb at orange.fr>
To: <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 6:41 AM
Subject: [B-Greek] Musings over John 1:16


> Hello folks,
>
> I've been looking over the Prologue to John's Gospel over the last few 
> days, and keep coming up against the hOTI that opens v. 16 :
>
> hOTI EK TOU PLHRWMATOS AUTOU hHMEIS PANTES ELABOMEN KAI CARIN ANTI CARITOS
>
> The usual meaning of hΟΤΙ would be "for / because". The textual variant 
> (replacing hOTI with KAI) shows that the construction is difficult, and 
> several commentators suggest looking at v. 15 as an intrusive secondary 
> addition, observing that v. 16 flows much more naturally from v. 14. From 
> the point of view of vocabulary and progression of thought, the point is 
> well taken. It seems to me, however, that even if we connect v. 16 
> directly to v. 14, keeping the meaning as "because", the logical 
> connection still remains problematical.
>
> BDAG, under 5,c, gives "so that (as a result)" as a possible function of 
> hOTI, referring to Jn 7:35 as an example:
>
> POU hOUTOS MELLEI POREUESQAI hOTI hMEIS OUC hEURHSOMEN AUTON; "...so that 
> we will not find him?"
>
> That seems like an interesting option for 1:16, with the result that v. 16 
> then opens up a new thought, building on v. 15 (or directly on v. 14 or 
> even the two verses together, thus, e.g., Ridderbos). The difficulty, as I 
> see it, is that the only examples given use hHOTI to open an apodosis. My 
> question, then, is twofold: firstly, can hOTI bear this meaning at the 
> beginning of a new clause, and not merely in an apodosis? Secondly, does 
> anyone have examples of such a usage elsewhere in Koine Greek, inside or 
> outide the NT?
>
> Any other suggestions for translation? Thanks in advance for your input.
>
>
> Donald Cobb
> Aix-en-Provence, France
>
>
>
> ---
> B-Greek home page: http://www.ibiblio.org/bgreek
> B-Greek mailing list
> B-Greek at lists.ibiblio.org
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-greek
> 




More information about the B-Greek mailing list