[B-Greek] John3 3,7 revisited ?born again?
Mark Lightman
lightmanmark at yahoo.com
Mon Apr 20 22:23:30 EDT 2009
It "got" its translation in the KJV because they thought
it meant "again," and maybe it does. I think it means
"from above", but I don't know, and neither does LSJ or
Amplified (who KNOW they don't know and so render it
"anew (from above") or anyone else.
I've never seen this mentioned, but the same word
occurs with the same ambiguity in Martyrdom of
Polycarp 1:1. The martyrdoms took place HINA
hHMIN hO KURIOS ANWQEN EPIDEIXHi TO
KATA TO EUAGGELION MARTURION, "so that
the Lord might show us again a martyrdom in
accordance with the Gospel", or "show us from above..."
I'm pretty sure it means "again" here too, but I would never
argue with someone who thinks it means "above." These
sorts of ambiguities are entrenched in the Greek
and they are the reason why people who read
Greek almost never use a phrase like "correct
translation." (Not that you really meant this
either, I can tell from the tone of your question that
you are not dogmatic on these issues either. I'm
just venting a bit not against you but just in general.
You (and we) do well to revisit this passage.)
Mark L.
--- On Mon, 4/20/09, frank boumphrey <koinebible at gmail.com> wrote:
From: frank boumphrey <koinebible at gmail.com>
Subject: [B-Greek] John3 3,7 revisited ?born again?
To: "B-Greek" <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Date: Monday, April 20, 2009, 7:54 PM
My question is how did γεννηθῇ ἄνωθεν - GENNHQHi ANWQEN get its
translation
in the KJV and its immitators of 'born again'?
In several translations γεννηθῇ ἄνωθεν - GENNHQHi ANWQEN is
translated as
'born again'' rather than 'born from above'. My
(Intermediate) Liddel and
Scott also gives this tanslation for NT. More recent translations that I
checked give the (?correct)translation 'from above'.
ἀπεκρίθη ἰησοῦς καὶ εἶπεν αὐτῷ, ἀμὴν
ἀμὴν λέγω σοι, ἐὰν μή τις γεννηθῇ
ἄνωθεν, οὐ δύναται ἰδεῖν τὴν βασιλείαν
τοῦ θεοῦ.
APEKRIQH IHSOUS KAI EIPEN AUTWi, AMHN AMHN LEGW SOI, EAN MH TIS GENNHQHi
ANWQEN, OU DUNATAI IDEIN THN BASILEIAN TOU QEOU.
Of the other ?13 occurences in the NT only John 3,3 and John 7
μὴ θαυμάσῃς ὅτι εἶπόν σοι, δεῖ ὑμᾶς
γεννηθῆναι ἄνωθεν.
MH QAUMASHiS hOTI EIPON SOI, DEI UMAS GENNHQHNAI ANWQEN.
are given this translation by the KJV and immitators. I havn't checked out
the LXX
and Galatians 4 9 KJV translates it as 'anew'
νῦν δὲ γνόντες θεόν, μᾶλλον δὲ
γνωσθέντες ὑπὸ θεοῦ, πῶς ἐπιστρέφετε
πάλιν
ἐπὶ τὰ ἀσθενῆ καὶ πτωχὰ στοιχεῖα, οἷς
πάλιν ἄνωθεν δουλεύειν θέλετε;
NUN DE GNONTES QEON, MALLON DE GNWSQENTES UPO QEOU, PWS EPISTREFETE PALIN
EPI TA ASQENH KAI PTWXA STOIXEIA, hOIS PALIN ANWQEN DOULEUEIN QELETE;
although here the more usual sense of 'from the begining' would fit
perfectly well.
Is this just a case of copying from older Translations or am I missing
something?
Frank Boumphrey
koinebible at gmail.com
www.biblegreek.net
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