[B-Greek] Fwd: Porter Beginning Greek Book

John Sanders john.franklin.sanders at gmail.com
Mon Aug 3 01:35:13 EDT 2009


If I may,  I do not believe we should cast SLA as a "new wave life style" or
even a "Ron Hubbard" type thing.  I view it as simply a pedogogical tool
which presumpposes that there is a threshold whereby one learning a foreign
language becomes fluent (that is, the student has acquired sufficient
vocabulary and recognition of phrase patterns that the student can
communicate in a general way (speak, listen, read) native-like, that is
without using their native language as a translation tool).  SLA supportors
say that given any collection of students, a larger proportion will achieve
this threshold, and they will achieve this threshold sooner than the present
grammar based instructional method.

For those who do not wish to use this tool, then do not do do so.  I do not
believe that they who advocate SLA for classical or koine Greek wish to
establish a monopoly of instruction.  But the reverse does appear to be the
case.  If one wishes to study SLA on their own or in an institution there is
a dearth of available means to do so.

Dr. Buth has one other goal that is sometimes conflated with SLA, that is
using classical or koine Greek as a second language.  Fluency is required
for that goal (a noble goal in itself), but one acquiring fluency is not
required  to use Greek as a second language.  China is good example of
that.  Although there are many Chinese who have acquired fluency in English,
there are many more who cannot speak fluently, but they can read incredably
well.  And that is what SLA is suppose to do, help a student acquire that
proficiency quickly enough so that they can now, on their own, begin to read
comfortably.  And by reading more and more gain even greater fluency.

Elizabeth Kline's remark about SLA students not being competent in
linguistics is very apt.  But it also illustrates that these are two
different skill sets.  The record we have of teaching these two skill sets
simultaneously has not be very good.  I think Dr. Buth is correct in that we
should teach these two skill sets seperately, with the analytical skill set
following the language acquisition skill set.  Likewise, one should remember
that not all students who gain the language skill set are necessarilly
interested in the analytical skill set.

I suppose this is my contribution to the thousand word essays that EK
mentioned before.  But I believe there are many students who enter college
or seminary and do want to acquire proficiency in classical or koine Greek
(as well as many who wish to do so as self-taught students).  Unfortunately,
the rate of achieving that state is rather dismal.  This failure to achieve
fluency for so many students should be a motive for those responsible in
these instutions to review what it is they are doing, because what they are
doing is not working for so many.

John Sanders
Suzhou, China
On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 11:29 AM, Elizabeth Kline <
kline_dekooning at earthlink.net> wrote:

> Louis,
>
> We are not that far apart. I agree with a lot of what you have said
> here.
>
>
> On Aug 2, 2009, at 7:04 PM, Louis Sorenson wrote:
>
> > EK: >>>I think there are more options than SLA and grammar-translate.
> >
> > LS: What are they? Can you give examples of text-books that you
> > think support these methods? I think it's important all know which
> > books line up with certain pedagogical approaches or at least depart
> > from the standard.
> >
>
> I don't like the implication that if we are not totally with Buth &
> SLA then we must be with Mounce/Wallace. That is an over simple view
> of things. I can't give you a list of course packages that represent
> each school of thought. I don't know that much. Things are not that
> clear cut. I asked a while back where David A. Black fits in this
> spectrum and received not a single reply. He teaches both in the USA
> and in Ethiopia. His DVD set is a capture of his lectures in Ethiopia.
> I have a faint recollection that D.A. Black is not anti-linguistic.
> What I have heard about him word of mouth has been fairly positive.
> But I don't have the DVDs.
>
> >
> > EK:>>>Regardless of how you start out in beginning  greek, you will
> > at some time need to be able to do grammatical analysis, otherwise
> > you will not be able to interact with 2000 years of exegetical
> > tradition.
> >
> >
> > LS: A six week course using one of the standard exegesis manuals
> > could easily fill the gap. Buth's approach talks about cases,
> > tenses, etc.; (I'm currently going through his grammars).
> >
> > Exegesis is overrated,
>
> This is not an exegesis list. Your experience in school sounds
> familiar, but it does not represent what I would call exegesis.  I am
> talking about  being able to read works like the ICC, WBC, NIGTC, ...
> and a vast multitude of monographs on NT studies. If you want to use
> this literature you need to be able to deal with syntax and lexical
> semantics. Buth isn't suggesting we skip over this material, he wants
> technical capability combined with fluency. Not one or the other
> (private correspondence earlier today).
>
> I am not anti fluency. But the people I run into who did SLA in high
> shcool and college are very poorly equipped to tackle language as a
> linguist would. They don't even possess the conceptual framework
> needed to begin the process. It is like trying to teach physics to
> someone who didn't take any math. You will never progress beyond first
> base. They don't know enough to even get started.
>
> >
>
> Elizabeth Kline
>
>
>
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-- 
John Sanders
Suzhou, China



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