[B-Greek] Translation [Re: Philippians 1:14

Jennifer & Bruce McKinnon jennifer.bruce at telus.net
Wed Aug 5 19:28:00 EDT 2009


Many thanks for your comments.  They were helpful.
Bruce McKinnon

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Carl Conrad" <cwconrad2 at mac.com>
To: "Jennifer & Bruce McKinnon" <jennifer.bruce at telus.net>
Cc: "B-Greek" <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2009 3:35 PM
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Translation [Re: Philippians 1:14


> I'll take a stab at it. Yes, PEPOIQOTAS is a "second" perfect  
> participle; in fact, however, one doesn't find a PEPEIKWS in the GNT,  
> nor, for that matter, in the LXX either. PEPOIQA is the intransitive  
> perfect corresponding to the present middle PEIQOMAI rather than to  
> the present active PEIQW. For my part I am inclined to think that  
> PEPOIQA is comparable to OIDA and hESTHKA in that these verbs are  
> genuinely stative: "I know," "I stand," "I have conviction." I think  
> it is wrong to think of PEPOIQA as if it were a perfect passive of the  
> active verb PEIQW. There is, after all, a perfect passive of PEIQW:  
> PEPEISMAI; it appears 2x in the LXX, even if not at all in the GNT. I  
> think that the sense "have confidence in" or "rely upon" is  
> appropriate here.
> 
> Carl W. Conrad
> Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
> 
> 
> On Aug 4, 2009, at 5:45 PM, Jennifer & Bruce McKinnon wrote:
> 
>> I posted this message a few days ago but it elicited no response.  Any
>> assistance or comments for a translation plodder would be much  
>> appreciated.
>> Bruce McKinnon
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Jennifer & Bruce McKinnon" <jennifer.bruce at telus.net>
>> To: "B-Greek" <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, August 01, 2009 4:31 PM
>> Subject: [B-Greek] Philippians 1:14
>>
>>
>>> I've been pondering PEPOIQOTAS and how verse 14 should be translated.
>>> Unless I'm badly mistaken (a real possibility), it is a second  
>>> perfect
>>> participle of PEIQW and this second perfect is usually translated  
>>> as an
>>> active verb such as "trust" [in], "have confidence" [in], etc.  On  
>>> this
>>> interpretation, the second perfect usage for this verb has not  
>>> changed in
>>> the NT from its typical meaning in the LXX and in classical Greek.   
>>> This
>>> is the meaning referred to in BDAG and in Moule's Cambridge Greek
>>> Testament commentary.  Several other commentaries, however, are  
>>> silent
>>> about (or ignore) the fact that the participle is a second perfect  
>>> (e.g.,
>>> Sumney at p. 20)  O'Brien writes at p. 95 of his commentary:
>>> "If the verb PEIQW is given its original meaning of 'convince',
>>> 'persuade', and the full force of the perfect tense is pressed,  
>>> then it
>>> describes a conviction that began in the past and has continuing  
>>> effects.
>>> It is thus distinguished from the main verb TOLMAN ('dare'; a present
>>> tense): already convinced they now continue to dare."
>>> On this point, O'Brien's footnote 47 refers to the commentary by  
>>> Collange,
>>> to which I have no access.  (On page 94, he does, however,  
>>> translate the
>>> phrase as "And most of the believers have more confidence in the Lord
>>> through my imprisonment...".)
>>> In addition, several English translations treat this participle as  
>>> if it
>>> has the normal force of a perfect (e.g., RSV).  I've wondered  
>>> whether I'm
>>> making a distinction without a difference but receive comfort from  
>>> the
>>> traditional differentiation reflected in BDAG and by the implicit
>>> importance O'Brien gives to the question whether this second perfect
>>> participle of PEIQW should be given "the full force of the perfect  
>>> tense".
>>> If one translates the participle as being equivalent to a present  
>>> active
>>> participle, a possible translation might be:  "Most of the brethren
>>> trusting in the Lord are bolder, because of my imprisonment, to  
>>> speak the
>>> Word without fear" -- although I've seen no one taking TOIS DESMOIS  
>>> with
>>> TOLMAN rather than with PEPOIQOTAS.
>>> Any thoughts or comments?
>>>
>>> Bruce McKinnon
> 
> 
> 
>



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