[B-Greek] John 6:40 - PAS - "ALL" or "ALL THOSE WHO" ?
Iver Larsen
iver_larsen at sil.org
Thu Aug 6 14:29:26 EDT 2009
----- Original Message -----
From: John Sanders
To: Iver Larsen
Cc: greek B-Greek
Sent: 6. august 2009 14:56
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] John 6:40 - PAS - "ALL" or "ALL THOSE WHO" ?
I apologize once more. I believe that I am not making myself very clear. I do
not wish to repeat myself, for that will not help. So I hope that this may make
myself more understandable.
I do not question your understanding of this particular text, I also think that
is correct. Let me translate the text as I think it would read:
TOUTO GAR ESTIN TO QELHMA TOU PATROS MOU hINA PAS O QEWRWN TON UION KAI PISTEUWN
EIS AUTON EXHi ZWHN AIWNION KAI ANASTHSW AUTON EGW EN TH ESXATHi HMERAi.
For this is the wish of my Father, that every one discovering the son and
believing in Him will have life eternal and I shall raise him on the last day.
What is the question, then? As I understand it, as I perceive the question, it
is asking who is included in the set? Does the set include everyone and this is
the process that each one will go through to receive life eternal and be raised
on the last day, or is this actually the definition of the set and only they who
comply with this definition will receive life eternal and be raised on the last
day?
-------------------------
IL: Your second option is what the text is saying. The PAS modifies the
substantive participle "every one who...". It is a demonstrative that is part of
the noun phrase "every-one seeing..." PAS is inherently emphatic and normally
comes before the noun it modifies.
-------------
The text itself is clear, but the text does not tell us which of these two
choices comprise the set of those who will receive life eternal and be raised on
the last day. Either the set will have to comply with the text because it is
the definition of the set; or it gives the process for which the set is to
comply. In either case you can come to this text and read it and not be
discomforted. That is why I say that the text is insufficient to answer this
question and you will need further information.
-------------
IL: This is where I disagree. The text is clear and it does tell us which choice
is meant.
Iver Larsen
John Sanders
Suzhou, China
On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 3:35 PM, Iver Larsen <iver_larsen at sil.org> wrote:
----- Original Message ----- From: "John Sanders"
<john.franklin.sanders at gmail.com>
To: "Elizabeth Kline" <kline_dekooning at earthlink.net>
Cc: "greek B-Greek" <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: 6. august 2009 08:27
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] John 6:40 - PAS - "ALL" or "ALL THOSE WHO" ?
I think that the answers given are accurate as they pertain to the Greek,
but they do not answer the question as put forth:
"The difference being in (1) it is the desire of the father that those who
are in a condition of perceiving and believing would have eternal life.
Whereas in (2) it is the desire of the father that all would be in a
condition of perceiving and believing and that all would have eternal life."
Well, I thought the arguments from grammar and similar constructions were clear
enough to indicate that (1) is the intended sense, and (2) would have to be
expressed in a different way with a subjunctive on the perceiving. Notice also
how in English you/Matthew had to add a second "would" in (2) which is not
reflected in the Greek text. Matthew also added an "add" after "believing" which
is not in the text. You can say that the desire of the father is that all might
have eternal life, but the condition is clear in that only (all) those who
perceive that Jesus is the "son of God" and believes in him will actually obtain
that life.
Iver Larsen
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