[B-Greek] John 6:40 - PAS - "ALL" or "ALL THOSE WHO" ?
rhutchin at aol.com
rhutchin at aol.com
Fri Aug 7 07:55:55 EDT 2009
Is it possible that the article, hO, resolves the issue?? Does use of the article direct our attention, and limit this, to "the seeing and believing ones."? So, it is not those who will be discovering (or will be seeing) the son as Sanders has offered as a translation but those who already have discovered the son.? The article defines a specific group of people who have already come to both see and believe and it is these who will be raised up.
Roger Hutchinson
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Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 14:27:59 +0800
From: John Sanders <john.franklin.sanders at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] John 6:40 - PAS - "ALL" or "ALL THOSE WHO" ?
I think that the answers given are accurate as they pertain to the Greek,
but they do not answer the question as put forth:
"The difference being in (1) it is the desire of the father that those who
are in a condition of perceiving and believing would have eternal life.
Whereas in (2) it is the desire of the father that all would be in a
condition of perceiving and believing and that all would have eternal life."
As I perceive this question, it is asking "the intent" or "extent" of the
TO QELHMA to the SU and whether that "intent" or "extent" can be determined
from the content and grammar of verse 40 of John.
...
John Sanders.
Suzhou, China
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 20:56:44 +0800
From: John Sanders <john.franklin.sanders at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] John 6:40 - PAS - "ALL" or "ALL THOSE WHO" ?
...I hope that this may make myself more understandable.
I do not question your understanding of this particular text, I also think
that is correct. Let me translate the text as I think it would read:
TOUTO GAR ESTIN TO QELHMA TOU PATROS MOU hINA PAS O QEWRWN TON UION KAI
PISTEUWN EIS AUTON EXHi ZWHN AIWNION KAI ANASTHSW AUTON EGW EN TH ESXATHi
HMERAi.
For this is the wish of my Father, that every one discovering the son and
believing in Him will have life eternal and I shall raise him on the last
day.
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 08:52:23 -0700
From: "Jeffrey T. Requadt" <jeffreyrequadt_list at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] John 6:40 - PAS - "ALL" or "ALL THOSE WHO" ?
...
John, is this what you're getting at when you say that the grammar doesn't
decide the question? ...what I think Carl and Iver
have been saying is that the first way, with PAS separated logically from O
QEWRWN, just isn't Greek. In other words, the construction PAS O + participle
(without trying to get mathematical about it), in this case, is a natural way of
defining a group of people, and that's the meaning that the grammatical layer
brings to this text.
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