[B-Greek] to what extent... PISTEUW
Mark Lightman
lightmanmark at yahoo.com
Sat Aug 22 10:48:58 EDT 2009
--- On Fri, 8/21/09, Iver Larsen wrote:
<In the translation project in Africa that I have been involved in,
we use 3 different words to translate PISTEUW. If the object is a person,
we use a word meaning "have complete trust" in that person. If the object
is a statement or concept, we use a word that means "believe/accept/agree to".
The first of these is used in John 11:26a, and the second in 11:26b.>
Hi, Iver,
John 11:26: καὶ πᾶς ὁ ζῶν καὶ πιστεύων εἰς ἐμὲ
οὐ μὴ ἀποθάνῃεἰς τὸν αἰῶνα. πιστεύεις τοῦτο;
KAI PAS hO ZWN KAI PISTEUWN EIS EME OU
MH APOQANHi EIS TO AIWNA. PISTEUEIS TOUTO?
"And everyone who lives and trusts in me will never ever die.
Do you mentally assent to this?"
Two of my favorite “translations” also use different
words for the two PISTEUW’s in John 11:26.
1. Today’s Greek Version gives εμπιστευομαι EMPISTEUOMAI
(“I rely on”) for the first PISTEUW and πιστευω PISTEUW
(“I believe”) for the second PISTEUW.
2. Nonnus, who wrote a 5th Century paraphrase
of John in Homeric Greek, gives αεξω πιστιν εν φρεσι
AEXW PISTIN EN FRESI (“I let faith grow in my gut”)
for the first PISTEUW and πειθομαι ὡς ὁδε μυθος
ετητυμος PEIQOMAI hWS hODE MUQOS ETHTUMOS
(“I am persuaded that this saying is certain”) for the
second PISTEUW.
I could not find any English translation which
uses different words , unless you consider “believe”
and “believe in” to be two different words.
Mark L
FWSFOROS
From: Iver Larsen <iver_larsen at sil.org>
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] to what extent... PISTEUW
To: "Mark Lightman" <lightmanmark at yahoo.com>, b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org, "Luke Firth" <luke.firth.mail at gmail.com>
Date: Friday, August 21, 2009, 12:00 AM
----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Lightman" <lightmanmark at yahoo.com>
To: <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>; "Luke Firth" <luke.firth.mail at gmail.com>
Sent: 21. august 2009 04:23
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] to what extent... PISTEUW
> --- On Thu, 8/20/09, Luke Firth wrote:
>
> <To what extent is there justification for any kind of idea that says
> that the word PISTEUW (I believe (in), have faith, trust) has lost
> much of it's Greek meaning by simply translating it as "believe"???
> As the word believe in (at least Australian culture) is more of a... I
> THINK (with my mind) that this happened... as opposed to... I TRUST in
> this.
> Wouldn't it be of much more significance to this culture to even
> translate it as "trust in" - As does David H. Stern in his 'Complete
> Jewish Bible'>
>
> Hi, Luke,
>
> Sometimes it would yes, and sometimes it would not.
>
> In John 11:26a PISTEUW means something like "I trust in" but in John 11:26b,
> it does not mean this at all. It means something like "I think this to be true."
> As they used to say on Saturday Night Live, New Shimmer is a floor polish AND
> a desert topping.
>
> Mark L
> Φωσφορος
In the translation project in Africa that I have been involved in, we use 3 different words to translate PISTEUW. If the object is a person, we use a word meaning "have complete trust" in that person. If the object is a statement or concept, we use a word that means "believe/accept/agree to". The first of these is used in John 11:26a, and the second in 11:26b. We have a third word that is stronger than "accept", and it includes both accepting something as true and responding positively in action to that acceptance. So, the word chosen depends on context. It happens all the time in translation that the range of meaning of one word in one language is covered by several words in another language.
Louw and Nida list 4 senses for PISTEUW:
a. think to be true: pisteuw#31.35 (to believe something to be true and, hence, worthy of being trusted - ‘to believe, to think to be true, to regard as trustworthy.’)
b trust: pisteuw#31.85 (to believe to the extent of complete trust and reliance - ‘to believe in, to have confidence in, to have faith in, to trust.’)
c have Christian faith: pisteuw#31.102 (to believe in the good news about Jesus Christ and to become a follower - ‘to be a believer, to be a Christian.’) e.g. Acts 4:32, Rom 1:8,16
d entrust: pisteuw#35.50 (to entrust something to the care of someone - ‘to entrust to, to put into the care of.’) Rom 3:2.
Iver Larsen
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