[B-Greek] Titus 1:12-13

Yancy W Smith yancywsmith at sbcglobal.net
Wed Dec 9 23:17:42 EST 2009


I don't think it is likely that 13a is a question. It is more likely  
an exclamation. If it were a question, wouln't need some sort of  
signal disjunction like DE? I would imagine that 12 is a jibe at the  
the Cretans, undermining the bad guy, contrarian image typically  
displayed toward some foreigners. "Paul" also sees his Cretans as  
vulnerable to other types of Jewish teachers like himself. To many the  
difference between a Christian Jewish teacher and a non-Christian  
Jewish teacher would have been minimal indeed.

Yancy

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 9, 2009, at 6:27 PM, Oun Kwon <kwonbbl at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 4:29 PM, Blue Meeksbay  
> <bluemeeksbay at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Dear Yancy -
>>
>> Are you saying then, that Paul's affirmation  hH MARTURIA hAUTH  
>> ESTIN ALHQHS might also be a bit of irony, because Paul is agreeing  
>> that they are lying, because Paul does not believe Zeus is buried  
>> in Crete, simply, because Paul does not believe Zeus is real?  So  
>> that, in English it would be better to translate it, "This  
>> testimony is true! (using an exclamation point rather than a period)
>>
>> B.Harris
>>
>>
>
> Of course, it is to be taken something of exclamation. My initial
> question was "When I  take it as an interrogative (a rhetoric question
> which has an implicit answer), is it allowed in Greek grammar-syntax?"
>
> The reason I have brought this topic is that, not much of
> understanding the quotation, its background, and Paul's taking it, but
> rather a difficulty of connecting vv. 12-13a to the subsequent v. 13b.
> (I don't have any commentaries to shed light on this verse.)
>
> So far, the following is my reading and understanding of the text:
>
> 1:12    A certain one of them, in fact, one of their own [Cretan]  
> prophets, said,
>            <[We] Cretans are always liars;
>                wild beasts, lazy bellies.>
> 1:13    In such testimonial coming from out of their own mouth
>        don’t we hear something of a true saying?!
>
> [The words in bracket are mine.]
>
> These verses do not seem function to focus on the character of Cretans
> per se, but function as an opening for the admonition against the
> Judaizers, which follows in vv. 13b-14:
>
> The Cretan prophet himself does honestly say they can lie, "we Cretans
> are always liars".  (Here, reading it as 'we Cretans', not just
> 'Cretans', do make the nuance of the text clear.) Then, be it known
> that the Judaizers do likewise lie. So, rebuke them; don't pay
> attention to them, etc.
>
> Oun Kwon.
> ---
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