[B-Greek] Titus 1:12-13
Elizabeth Kline
kline_dekooning at earthlink.net
Thu Dec 10 12:13:47 EST 2009
Yancy intended to send this to the entire list. I agree that irony is
probably a significant element in this discourse segment.
Thank you
Elizabeth Kline
On Dec 9, 2009, at 2:34 PM, yancywsmith at sbcglobal.net wrote:
> Here is a translation of the Plutarch text to which Elizabeth
> referred. One might run the risk of not being cautious enough in
> these matters, but it seems to me that making hay with the character
> of Cretans was a common place. And that it was likely common
> knowledge that Crete was one of the few places without harmful wild
> beasts. So, the likelihood that Paul in Titus 1:12-13 is a case of
> delicious irony on several levels. This is my rough and ready
> translation.
>
> I note, Cornelius Pulcher, your temperate manner of conducting the
> administration of public affairs. From the perspective of those [of
> us] who meet you, your dedication to the common good is a benefit
> that causes you no personal regret at all. For, as they say of
> Crete, though we discover the one single region of the world that
> has no wild beasts, but even to this time, there was never a state
> that has put up with so much envy, jealousy, the love of strife, a
> nation richly productive in the passions of enmity. (But [it is
> true] that friends get us entangled with enmities, if nothing else
> does this, the wise Chilo understood when he asked the man who said
> that he had no enemy if he had no friend.) In my judgment therefore
> in every respect it is best for the person with political
> responsibility to be carefully attentive, and listen to Xenophon who
> was not trifling when he said, that a man should make the best
> advantage he can of him that is his adversary.
>
> Yancy Smith
>
>
>
>
>
> On Dec 9, 2009, at 1:31 PM, Elizabeth Kline wrote:
>
>>
>> On Dec 9, 2009, at 6:16 AM, yancywsmith at sbcglobal.net wrote:
>>
>>> Can the reel Paul, or, in this case, the writer of the letter to
>>> Titus, tell a joke? Can he pose a conundrum? Can he speak with
>>> irony? He says:
>>>
>>> εἶπέν τις ἐξ αὐτῶν ἴδιος αὐτῶν
>>> προφήτης·
>>> Κρῆτες ἀεὶ ψεῦσται, κακὰ θηρία,
>>> γαστέρες ἀργαί.
>>> ἡ μαρτυρία αὕτη ἐστὶν ἀληθής.
>>> δι᾿ ἣν αἰτίαν ἔλεγχε αὐτοὺς
>>> ἀποτόμως, ἵνα ὑγιαίνωσιν ἐν τῇ
>>> πίστει,
>>> EIPEN TIS EX AUTWN IDIOS AUTWN PROFHTHS—
>>> KRHTES AEI YEUSTAI, KAKA QHRIA, GASTERES ARGAI.
>>> hH MARTURIA hAUTH ESTIN ALHQHS. DI hHN AITIAN ELEGCE AUTOUS
>>> APOTOMWS, hHINA hUGIAINWSIN EN THi PISTEI
>>
>>
>> There is another potential indication of irony here which has been
>> noted frequently (Mounce Past. Ep. WBC 398, Marshal Past. Ep.ICC
>> p201-202) . The expression KAKA QHRIA probably refers to wild
>> beasts. According to Pliny Nat. Hist. 8.83 and Plutarch Mor. 86c
>> Crete was known for its lack of wild beasts. In Tit. 1:12-13 KAKA
>> QHRIA might be understood to suggest that hOI KRHTES were in some
>> sense the wild beasts of Crete.
>>
>> Plutarch Mor. 86b-c
>> .
>> 86.B.1 Ὁρῶ μὲν ὅτι τὸν πραότατον, ὦ
>> Κορνήλιε Ποῦλχερ, πολιτείας ᾕρησαι
>> τρόπον, ἐν ᾧ μάλιστα τοῖς κοινοῖς
>> ὠφέλιμος ὢν ἀλυπότατον ἰδίᾳ τοῖς
>> ἐν- 86.C.1 τυγχάνουσι παρέχεις σεαυτόν.
>> ἐπεὶ δὲ χώραν μὲν ἄθηρον ὥσπερ
>> ἱστοροῦσι τὴν Κρήτην εὑρεῖν ἔστι,
>> πολιτεία δὲ μήτε φθόνον ἐνηνοχυῖα
>> μήτε ζῆλον ἢ φιλονεικίαν, ἔχθρας
>> γονιμώτατα πάθη, μέχρι νῦν 86.C.5 οὐ
>> γέγονεν (ἀλλ' εἰ μηδὲν ἄλλο, ταῖς
>> ἔχθραις αἱ φιλίαι συμπλέκουσιν
>> ἡμᾶς· ὃ καὶ Χίλων ὁ σοφὸς νοήσας
>> τὸν εἰπόντα μηδένα ἔχειν ἐχθρὸν
>> ἠρώτησεν εἰ μηδὲ φίλον ἔχει), δοκεῖ
>> μοι τά τ' ἄλλα περὶ ἐχθρῶν τῷ
>> πολιτικῷ διεσκέφθαι προσήκειν καὶ
>> τοῦ 86.C.10 Ξενοφῶντος ἀκηκοέναι μὴ
>> παρέργως εἰπόντος ὅτι τοῦ νοῦν
>> ἔχοντός ἐστι καὶ “ἀπὸ τῶν ἐχθρῶν
>> ὠφε- λεῖσθαι.” ἅπερ οὖν εἰς τοῦτο
>> πρῴην εἰπεῖν μοι παρέστη,
>> συναγαγὼν ὁμοῦ τι τοῖς αὐτοῖς
>> ὀνόμασιν ἀπέσταλκά σοι, φεισάμενος
>> ὡς ἐνῆν μάλιστα τῶν 86.C.15 ἐν τοῖς
>> Πολιτικοῖς Παραγγέλμασι
>> γεγραμμένων, 86.D.1 ἐπεὶ κἀκεῖνο τὸ
>> βιβλίον ὁρῶ σε πρόχειρον ἔχοντα
>> πολλάκις.
>> .
>> 86.B.1 hORW MEN hOTI TON PRAOTATON, W KORNHLIE POULCER, POLITEIAS
>> hHiRHSAI TROPON, EN hWi MALISTA TOIS KOINOIS WFELIMOS WN ALUPOTATON
>> IDIAi TOIS EN- 86.C.1 TUGCANOUSI PARECEIS SEAUTON. EPEI DE CWRAN
>> MEN AQHRON hWSPER hISTOROUSI THN KRHTHN hEUREIN ESTI, POLITEIA DE
>> MHTE FQONON ENHNOCUIA MHTE ZHLON H FILONEIKIAN, ECQRAS GONIMWTATA
>> PAQH, MECRI NUN 86.C.5 OU GEGONEN (ALL' EI MHDEN ALLO, TAIS ECQRAIS
>> hAI FILIAI SUMPLEKOUSIN hHMAS· hO KAI CILWN hO SOFOS NOHSAS TON
>> EIPONTA MHDENA ECEIN ECQRON HRWTHSEN EI MHDE FILON ECEI), DOKEI MOI
>> TA T' ALLA PERI ECQRWN TWi POLITIKWi DIESKEFQAI PROSHKEIN KAI TOU
>> 86.C.10 XENOFWNTOS AKHKOENAI MH PARERGWS EIPONTOS hOTI TOU NOUN
>> ECONTOS ESTI KAI “APO TWN ECQRWN WFE- LEISQAI.” hAPER OUN EIS
>> TOUTO PRWiHN EIPEIN MOI PARESTH, SUNAGAGWN hOMOU TI TOIS AUTOIS
>> ONOMASIN APESTALKA SOI, FEISAMENOS hWS ENHN MALISTA TWN 86.C.15 EN
>> TOIS POLITIKOIS PARAGGELMASI GEGRAMMENWN, 86.D.1 EPEI KA)KEINO TO
>> BIBLION hORW SE PROCEIRON ECONTA POLLAKIS.
>> .
>>
>>
>>
>> Elizabeth Kline
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
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