[B-Greek] Titus 1:12-13

Elizabeth Kline kline_dekooning at earthlink.net
Thu Dec 10 12:13:47 EST 2009


Yancy intended to send this to the entire list. I agree that irony is  
probably a significant element in this discourse segment.

Thank you



Elizabeth Kline


On Dec 9, 2009, at 2:34 PM, yancywsmith at sbcglobal.net wrote:

> Here is a translation of the Plutarch text to which Elizabeth  
> referred. One might run the risk of not being cautious enough in  
> these matters, but it seems to me that making hay with the character  
> of Cretans was a common place. And that it was likely common  
> knowledge that Crete was one of the few places without harmful wild  
> beasts. So, the likelihood that Paul in Titus 1:12-13 is a case of  
> delicious irony on several levels. This is my rough and ready  
> translation.
>
> I note, Cornelius Pulcher, your temperate manner of conducting the  
> administration of public affairs. From the perspective of those [of  
> us] who meet you, your dedication to the common good is a benefit  
> that causes you no personal regret at all.  For, as they say of  
> Crete, though we discover the one single region of the world that  
> has no wild beasts, but even to this time, there was never a state  
> that has put up with so much envy, jealousy, the love of strife, a  
> nation richly productive in the passions of enmity. (But [it is  
> true] that friends get us entangled with enmities, if nothing else  
> does this, the wise Chilo understood when he asked the man who said  
> that he had no enemy if he had no friend.) In my judgment therefore  
> in every respect it is best for the person with political  
> responsibility to be carefully attentive, and listen to Xenophon who  
> was not trifling when he said, that a man should make the best  
> advantage he can of him that is his adversary.
>
> Yancy Smith
>
>
>
>
>
> On Dec 9, 2009, at 1:31 PM, Elizabeth Kline wrote:
>
>>
>> On Dec 9, 2009, at 6:16 AM, yancywsmith at sbcglobal.net wrote:
>>
>>> Can the reel Paul, or, in this case, the writer of the letter to  
>>> Titus, tell a joke? Can he pose a conundrum? Can he speak with  
>>> irony? He says:
>>>
>>> 	εἶπέν τις ἐξ αὐτῶν ἴδιος αὐτῶν  
>>> προφήτης·
>>> 	Κρῆτες ἀεὶ ψεῦσται, κακὰ θηρία,  
>>> γαστέρες ἀργαί.
>>> 	ἡ μαρτυρία αὕτη ἐστὶν ἀληθής.  
>>> δι᾿ ἣν αἰτίαν ἔλεγχε αὐτοὺς  
>>> ἀποτόμως, ἵνα ὑγιαίνωσιν ἐν τῇ  
>>> πίστει,
>>> 	EIPEN TIS EX AUTWN IDIOS AUTWN PROFHTHS—
>>> 	KRHTES AEI YEUSTAI, KAKA QHRIA, GASTERES ARGAI.
>>> 	hH MARTURIA hAUTH ESTIN ALHQHS. DI hHN AITIAN ELEGCE AUTOUS  
>>> APOTOMWS, hHINA hUGIAINWSIN EN THi PISTEI
>>
>>
>> There is another potential indication of irony here which has been  
>> noted frequently (Mounce Past. Ep. WBC 398, Marshal   Past. Ep.ICC  
>> p201-202) . The expression KAKA QHRIA probably refers to wild  
>> beasts. According to Pliny Nat. Hist. 8.83 and Plutarch Mor. 86c  
>> Crete was known for its lack of wild beasts. In Tit. 1:12-13 KAKA  
>> QHRIA might be understood to suggest that hOI KRHTES were in some  
>> sense the wild beasts of Crete.
>>
>> Plutarch Mor. 86b-c
>> .
>> 86.B.1  Ὁρῶ μὲν ὅτι τὸν πραότατον, ὦ  
>> Κορνήλιε Ποῦλχερ, πολιτείας ᾕρησαι  
>> τρόπον, ἐν ᾧ μάλιστα τοῖς κοινοῖς  
>> ὠφέλιμος ὢν ἀλυπότατον ἰδίᾳ τοῖς  
>> ἐν- 86.C.1 τυγχάνουσι παρέχεις σεαυτόν.  
>> ἐπεὶ δὲ χώραν μὲν ἄθηρον ὥσπερ  
>> ἱστοροῦσι τὴν Κρήτην εὑρεῖν ἔστι,  
>> πολιτεία δὲ μήτε φθόνον ἐνηνοχυῖα  
>> μήτε ζῆλον ἢ φιλονεικίαν, ἔχθρας  
>> γονιμώτατα πάθη, μέχρι νῦν 86.C.5 οὐ  
>> γέγονεν (ἀλλ' εἰ μηδὲν ἄλλο, ταῖς  
>> ἔχθραις αἱ φιλίαι συμπλέκουσιν  
>> ἡμᾶς· ὃ καὶ Χίλων ὁ σοφὸς νοήσας  
>> τὸν εἰπόντα μηδένα ἔχειν ἐχθρὸν  
>> ἠρώτησεν εἰ μηδὲ φίλον ἔχει), δοκεῖ  
>> μοι τά τ' ἄλλα περὶ ἐχθρῶν τῷ  
>> πολιτικῷ διεσκέφθαι προσήκειν καὶ  
>> τοῦ 86.C.10 Ξενοφῶντος ἀκηκοέναι μὴ  
>> παρέργως εἰπόντος ὅτι τοῦ νοῦν  
>> ἔχοντός ἐστι καὶ “ἀπὸ τῶν ἐχθρῶν  
>> ὠφε- λεῖσθαι.” ἅπερ οὖν εἰς τοῦτο  
>> πρῴην εἰπεῖν μοι παρέστη,  
>> συναγαγὼν ὁμοῦ τι τοῖς αὐτοῖς  
>> ὀνόμασιν ἀπέσταλκά σοι, φεισάμενος  
>> ὡς ἐνῆν μάλιστα τῶν   86.C.15 ἐν τοῖς  
>> Πολιτικοῖς Παραγγέλμασι  
>> γεγραμμένων, 86.D.1 ἐπεὶ κἀκεῖνο τὸ  
>> βιβλίον ὁρῶ σε πρόχειρον ἔχοντα  
>> πολλάκις.
>> .
>> 86.B.1 hORW MEN hOTI TON PRAOTATON, W KORNHLIE POULCER, POLITEIAS  
>> hHiRHSAI TROPON, EN hWi MALISTA TOIS KOINOIS WFELIMOS WN ALUPOTATON  
>> IDIAi TOIS EN- 86.C.1 TUGCANOUSI PARECEIS SEAUTON. EPEI DE CWRAN  
>> MEN AQHRON hWSPER hISTOROUSI THN KRHTHN hEUREIN ESTI, POLITEIA DE  
>> MHTE FQONON ENHNOCUIA MHTE ZHLON H FILONEIKIAN, ECQRAS GONIMWTATA  
>> PAQH, MECRI NUN 86.C.5 OU GEGONEN (ALL' EI MHDEN ALLO, TAIS ECQRAIS  
>> hAI FILIAI SUMPLEKOUSIN hHMAS· hO KAI CILWN hO SOFOS NOHSAS TON  
>> EIPONTA MHDENA ECEIN ECQRON HRWTHSEN EI MHDE FILON ECEI), DOKEI MOI  
>> TA T' ALLA PERI ECQRWN TWi POLITIKWi DIESKEFQAI PROSHKEIN KAI TOU  
>> 86.C.10 XENOFWNTOS AKHKOENAI MH PARERGWS EIPONTOS hOTI TOU NOUN  
>> ECONTOS ESTI KAI “APO TWN ECQRWN WFE- LEISQAI.” hAPER OUN EIS  
>> TOUTO PRWiHN EIPEIN MOI PARESTH, SUNAGAGWN hOMOU TI TOIS AUTOIS  
>> ONOMASIN APESTALKA SOI, FEISAMENOS hWS ENHN MALISTA TWN 86.C.15 EN  
>> TOIS POLITIKOIS PARAGGELMASI GEGRAMMENWN, 86.D.1 EPEI KA)KEINO TO  
>> BIBLION hORW SE PROCEIRON ECONTA POLLAKIS.
>> .
>>
>>
>>
>> Elizabeth Kline
>>
>>
>>
>>
>









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