[B-Greek] Determining questions in the Greek language without an interrogative particle

Blue Meeksbay bluemeeksbay at yahoo.com
Thu Dec 10 16:19:14 EST 2009


GEORGE - YESTERDAY YOU HAD TROUBLE WITH YOUR POSTS, NOW THIS ONE IS ACTING UP, I WILL RESEND IT. MAYBE YOU'RE RIGHT, WE ARE BEING CENSORED.
 
As was mentioned in a past post sometime ago, many people, unfortunately, bring their theological underpinnings into grammatical decisions. I have no "dog in this hunt" because I do not believe whether this is a question or a statement changes any of the theological truth contained in verse 27-28. So, it is fine with me if it is seen as a question, however, is your conclusion only reached by the context? This actually may answer my original question on how we determine if a phrase is a question when absent any interrogative particle, so I will welcome any information.
 
It is interesting, however, I just went and checked out a couple of Greek linguists, like Henry Alford and John Albert Bengel, and I was happy to find they came to the same conclusion I came to – they said the phrase is not a question, but should be understood as a statement. I also looked up R.C.H. Lenski and he said, 
 
"We do not follow our versions and others who translate the verb as a question: 'Do you now believe?' How can Jesus here express doubt about their believing? This is settled by the positive declaration of Jesus in 17:8... "Nor does the appended adverb "now" lessen this acceptance, as though Jesus intends to say: 'Now, indeed, you believe, but will it be shortly?' This now points backward not forward. It declares that what Jesus had so long labored for has now, indeed been attained: the disciples believe, yea, they believe no less than this that Jesus came forth from God with all that this involved." 
 
All of these, however, seem to have come to their conclusions from their understanding of the context. So I am back to my original question in my first post on this subject, "Is the context the only way we can determine the answer?"  It seems the answer is, yes, in which case, I guess there will always be a bit of subjectivity involved in such selective decisions. 
 
Yours truly,
B. Harris
Sometimes, it seems the only way we could be sure, in situations like this, is to be there and be able to hear the tone in the speaker's voice, or to be able to ask the writer what he originally meant. (Just for the record, even though it would be "no skin off my nose"  if it was a question, I still suspect it was a statement.)
 

P.S. I underlined words I had put into italics, not only in what I wrote, but also what Lenski had in italics, because, for some reason, when I send the email, the italics disappear.





________________________________
From: Blue Meeksbay <bluemeeksbay at yahoo.com>
To: George F Somsel <gfsomsel at yahoo.com>
Cc: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
Sent: Thu, December 10, 2009 10:43:26 AM
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Determining questions in the Greek language without an interrogative particle


I do not want to go into a theological reasoning’s, so let me just state that some consider these verses of John to be important verses regarding the processional nature of Christ. In verse 28 Jesus gives them added information about his nature. In verse 30 they state they believe him. He states a fact of their belief in verse 31, which he also acknowledges in his prayer to the Father in Jn. 17:8. OTI RHMATA A DEDWKAS MOI DEDWKA AUTOIS KAI AUTOI ELABON KAI EGNWSAN ALHQWS OTI PARA SOU EXHLQON KAI EPISTEUSAN OTI SU ME APESTEILAS.
 
Consequently, the emphasis on verse 32, perhaps, is more on the fact that he is assuring them that when they are scattered, he would not be alone, because of the fact that he had just revealed to them in verse 28.  (Tyndale also saw verse 31 as a statement).
 
I admit the fact of this being a question or statement is not clear cut, thus my question, but it seems the context could support either conclusion. 
 B.Harris



________________________________
From: George F Somsel <gfsomsel at yahoo.com>
To: Blue Meeksbay <bluemeeksbay at yahoo.com>
Cc: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
Sent: Thu, December 10, 2009 9:44:15 AM
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Determining questions in the Greek language without an interrogative particle


Really?  With it specifically stating that APEKRIQH?
 george
gfsomsel 


… search for truth, hear truth, 
learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth, 
defend the truth till death.


- Jan Hus
_________ 




________________________________
From: Blue Meeksbay <bluemeeksbay at yahoo.com>
To: Blue Meeksbay <bluemeeksbay at yahoo.com>
Cc: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
Sent: Thu, December 10, 2009 10:36:30 AM
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Determining questions in the Greek language without an interrogative particle

How about John 16:31 – APEKRIQH AUTOIS IHSOUS ARTI PISTEUETE.  Most translate ARTI PISTEUETE as a question, but it could also be a statement, “Now you believe.”
 
Sincerely, 
B.Harris



________________________________
From: Blue Meeksbay <bluemeeksbay at yahoo.com>
To: Blue Meeksbay <bluemeeksbay at yahoo.com>
Cc: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
Sent: Thu, December 10, 2009 8:40:02 AM
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Determining questions in the Greek language without an interrogative particle



 
Sorry, poor example, I was reading a Byzantine text. I should have checked variants first! I will get another example.

 

________________________________
From: Blue Meeksbay <bluemeeksbay at yahoo.com>
To: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
Sent: Thu, December 10, 2009 8:14:33 AM
Subject: [B-Greek] Determining questions in the Greek language without an interrogative particle

When an interrogative particle is absent how does one tell if a phrase should be a question or a statement? Rom. 14:22 says   SU PISTIN ECEIS KATA SAUTON ECE ENWPION TOU QEOU MARKARIOS O MH KRINWN EAUTON EN W DOKIMAZEI.  Should SU PISTIN ECEIS be considered a question or a statement?
 
The AV translates it as – Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.
 
The ASV translates it as – The faith which thou hast, have thou to thyself before God. Happy is he that judgeth not himself in that which he  approveth.
 
Is not the context the only way we can determine the answer?
 
B. Harris


      
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