[B-Greek] More thanks or more tongues? 1Cor14:18

bgreek at global4.freeserve.co.uk bgreek at global4.freeserve.co.uk
Tue Dec 15 12:58:16 EST 2009


Thanks for your response George, a good question.  

I agree with you that given Paul's reference to 'ten thousand words in a tongue', this seems to point to the fact that he is saying that he is thankful that he speaks in tongues more (rather than being more thankful that he speaks in tongues).

However, the context is also one of tongues being a means of giving thanks.  Paul writes that when someone prays in a tongue how can one who does not understand say "Amen" to the THANKSGIVING (16), and the speaker may be giving THANKS well enough (vs17).  Therefore, for him to then say "I give thanks more than any of you by this means" does not seem beyond the realms of possibility to me, as it could be extending the fact that tongues is a means of giving thanks.

Kind regards
Adrian


On Tue Dec 15 10:54:14 CST 2009, George F Somsel <gfsomsel at yahoo.com> wrote:

> ????????? ?? ???, ?????? ???? ?????? ???????? ????·
> EUXARISTW TWi QEWi PANTWN hUMOWN MALLON GLWSSAIS LALW.
> 
> Just a matter of curiosity dealing with what understanding one would gain from such a proposal as yours that Paul might be saying "I thank my God more than any of you ..."  What would be his purpose in stating that his is more thankful than they?  People always write things with a purpose, and I simply can't see such a statement as something that he would be interested in setting forth.  On the other hand, to say that he speaks more tongues than they would definitely add to his statement that it is more worthwhile to speak 5 words with understanding.  Texts must be read not only with attention to the grammatical relationships but also with attention to what the author is attempting to state.  As I began, why would he say that he is more thankful than the Corinthians?
>  george
> gfsomsel 
> 
> 
> ? search for truth, hear truth, 
> learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth, 
> defend the truth till death.
> 
> 
> - Jan Hus
> _________ 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________
> From: "bgreek at global4.freeserve.co.uk" <bgreek at global4.freeserve.co.uk>
> To: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
> Sent: Tue, December 15, 2009 9:35:31 AM
> Subject: [B-Greek] More thanks or more tongues? 1Cor14:18
> 
> On Tue Dec 15 09:32:49 CST 2009, Carl Conrad <cwconrad2 at mac.com> wrote:
> 
>> 
>> On Dec 15, 2009, at 7:01 AM, bgreek at global4.freeserve.co.uk wrote:
>>> a couple of basic questions about this verse...
>>> 
>>> EUCARISTW TW QEW PANTWN hUMWN MALLON GLWSSAIS LALW
>>> 
>>> is generally translated along the lines:
>>> 
>>> I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you (NIV)
>>> 
>>> Is it acceptable to translate this
>>> 
>>> "I thank God more than all of you, that I speak in tongues", or does the word order or other consideration not allow this?
>>> 
>>> Also, in the Elzevir 1624 edn, the Greek is different from the Nestle:
>>> 
>>> EUCARISTW TW QEW MOU PANTWN hUMWN MALLON GLWSSAIS LALWN
>>> 
>>> Can this be translated:
>>> "I thank my God (by means of) speaking in tongues more than any of you"
>>> 
>>> In some ways this seems to fit the context better as in vs16-17, Paul is talking about an individual speaking in tongues as giving thanks to God, to then say "I use tongues to give thanks to God more than any of you" fits logically - but I am not sure whether Greek permits this.
>> 
>> Do you mean, "I thank my God more than any of you (does) when I speak in tongues?" I think that PANTWN hUMWN can only be construed with MALLON.
>> NA27/USB4 place a comma after QEWi, rightly, I think. And I think that verse 19 makes much more sense if verse 17 is understood as an affirmation on Paul's part that he does speak in tongues more than any of the Corinthian congregation.
>> 
>> Carl W. Conrad
>> Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
>> 
> 
> The first question is whether PANTWN hUMWN MALLON can be referring to EUCARISTW TW QEWi, or whether it must be referring to GLWSSAIS LALW - i.e. whether the emphasis can be "I thank God more than any of you does..." or whether it must be "...that I speak in tongues more than any of you does"
> 
> If the emphasis can be on "I thank God more than any of you does", then a supplementary question is whether:
> (esp from the Elzevir 1624 version with the use of the participle LALWN)
> "I thank my God more than any of you (does) when I speak in tongues"
> is as acceptable as:
> "I thank my God more than any of you (does) that I speak in tongues"
> 
> Adrian Clark
> ---
> B-Greek home page: http://www.ibiblio.org/bgreek
> B-Greek mailing list
> B-Greek at lists.ibiblio.org
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-greek
> 
> 
> 
> 




More information about the B-Greek mailing list