[B-Greek] John 3:16 "so"
George F Somsel
gfsomsel at yahoo.com
Tue Dec 15 22:08:29 EST 2009
οὕτως γὰρ ἠγάπησεν ὁ θεὸς τὸν κόσμον, ὥστε τὸν υἱὸν τὸν μονογενῆ ἔδωκεν, ἵνα πᾶς ὁ πιστεύων εἰς αὐτὸν μὴ ἀπόληται ἀλλʼ ἔχῃ ζωὴν αἰώνιον.
hOUTWS GAR HGAPHSEN hO QEOS TON KOSMON, hWSTE TON hUION TON MONGENH EDWKEN, hINA PAS hO PISTEUWN EIS AUTON MH APOLHTAI ALL' EXHi ZWHN AIWNION
While I tend to agree with Steve regarding the meaning of the passage, let me present an opposing witness regarding this usage.
1.1 Ἄμωμον διάνοιαν καὶ ἀδιάκριτον ἐν ὑπομονῇ ἔγνων ὑμᾶς ἔχοντας, οὐ κατὰ χρῆσιν ἀλλὰ κατὰ φύσιν, καθὼς ἐδήλωσέν μοι Πολύβιος ὁ ἐπίσκοπος ὑμῶν, ὃς παρεγένετο θελήματι θεοῦ καὶ Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ ἐν Σμύρνῃ, καὶ *** οὕτως μοι συνεχάρη *** δεδεμένῳ ἐν Χριστῷ Ἰησοῦ, *** ὥστε *** με τὸ πᾶν πλῆθος ὑμῶν ἐν αὐτῷ θεωρῆσαι. (2) ἀποδεξάμενος οὖν τὴν κατὰ θεὸν εὔνοιαν διʼ αὐτοῦ, ἐδόξασα εὑρὼν ὑμᾶς, ὡς ἔγνων, μιμητὰς ὄντας θεοῦ.
1.1 AMWMON DIANOIAN KAI ADIAKRITON EN hUPOMONHi EGNWN hUMAS EXONTAS OU KATA KRHSIN ALLA KATA FUSIN, KAQWS EDHLWSEN MOI POLUBIOS hO EPISKOPOS hUMWN, hOS PAREGENETO QELHMATI IHSOU XRISTOU EN SMURNHi, KAI hOUTWS MOI SUNEXARH DEDEMENWi EN XRISTWi IHSOU, hWSTE ME TO PAN PLHQOS hUMWN EN AUTWi QEWRHSAI. (2) APODECAMENOS OUN THN KATA QEON EUNOIAN DI' AUTOU, EDOCASA hEURWN hUMAS, hWS EGNWN, MIMHTAS ONTAS QEOU.
Holmes, M. W. (1999). The Apostolic Fathers : Greek texts and English translations (Updated ed.) (158). Grand Rapids, Mich.: Baker Books.
I'll take pity on some of the littler Greeks and provide Holmes' translation as well.
1. I know that you have a disposition that is blameless and unwavering in patient endurance, not from habit but by nature, inasmuch as Polybius your bishop informed me when, by the will of God and Jesus Christ, he visited me in Smyrna; *** so heartily did he rejoice with me ***, a prisoner in Christ Jesus, *** that *** in him I saw your entire congregation. (2) Having received, therefore, your godly good will through him, I praised God when I found out that you were, as I had learned, imitators of God.
Holmes, M. W. (1999). The Apostolic Fathers : Greek texts and English translations (Updated ed.) (159). Grand Rapids, Mich.: Baker Books.
george
gfsomsel
… search for truth, hear truth,
learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth,
defend the truth till death.
- Jan Hus
_________
________________________________
From: Steve Runge <srunge at logos.com>
To: Harold Holmyard <hholmyard3 at earthlink.net>; B-Greek <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Tue, December 15, 2009 7:32:28 PM
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] John 3:16 "so"
Harold,
I would suggest breaking the problem down into smaller components. The first controversy regards which way hOUTWS refers, whether it is anaphoric or cataphoric. The answer to this question will influence the sense you assign it, typically either manner or degree. In reading the literature on this issue, cases are made for both backward- and forward-pointing reference. If it is backward, the antecedent would be the lifting up of the Son of Man as the demonstration of God's love. The forward-pointing alternative would view the hWSTE clause as the referent.
I played and replayed the scenarios. Forward-pointing hOUTWS references are typically resolved in:
1. a quotation (e.g. Mt 2:5 referring to v. 6, or Mt. 6:9);
2. a subordinate clause introduced by hOTI (e.g. Mk 4:26, Lk 19:31), hWS (e.g. 1 Cor 4:1; 9:26; Jas 2:12), hINA (e.g. Mt 18:14);
3. an infinitive (e.g. Lk 1:25).
I have not found another instance where a cataphoric hOUTWS reference is resolved by hWSTE. It might could happen, but John 3:16 would be the lone token in the GNT.
According to my analysis in the Discourse GNT, John 21:21 is the only forward-pointing hOUTWS reference in the gospel other than the potential one in 3:16. There it is simply a general reference to the events that follow where Jesus reveals himself to the disciples after the resurrection. On the basis of the broader usage and that within John's gospel, I view the forward-pointing reading of hOUTWS in 3:16 as the harder and less likely one.
The second part regards the sense of hOUTWS. I understand hOUTWS to be a "pro-adverb" (sorry Carl, know you hate the terms). It is an adverb in that it modifies a verb, and it is a pro-form in that it can stand in the place of a concept like a pronoun. In 3:16, you need to choose your concept that it stands in place of, which in both cases would be a manner, not a degree. Thus I do not think that there is merit to the degree reading, the only sound option is manner. There is nothing in the preceding or following context describing a degree, only two manners: lifting up the Son of Man, and giving his only son.
This is my two cents, though I am sure there will be other opinions.
Regards,
Steven E. Runge
Scholar-in-Residence
Logos Bible Software
srunge at logos.com
www.logos.com
www.ntdiscourse.org
-----Original Message-----
From: b-greek-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:b-greek-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Harold Holmyard
Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2009 2:54 PM
To: B-Greek
Subject: [B-Greek] John 3:16 "so"
Dear list,
I have been studying a controversy in John 3:16:
*
John 3:16* οὕτως γὰρ ἠγάπησεν ὁ θεὸς τὸν κόσμον, ὥστε τὸν υἱὸν τὸν μονογενῆ ἔδωκεν, ἵνα πᾶς ὁ πιστεύων εἰς αὐτὸν μὴ ἀπόληται ἀλλ᾽ ἔχῃ ζωὴν αἰώνιον.
hOUTWS GAP HGAPHSEN hO QEOS TON KOSMON, hWSTE TON hUION TON MONOGENH EDWKEN, hINA PAS hO PISTEUWN EIS AUTON MH APOLHTAI ALL' ECHi ZWHN AIWNION.
The controversy concerns the force of hOUTWS and then hWSTE. The lexicons present, though not necessarily for this verse, the claim that the words together can imply an intensive idea where hOUTWS is "so" ("so
much") and hWSTE is "that." The use of "so" and "that" is, of course, the traditional rendering of the verse. Some recent commentaries, papers, and translations are saying that hOUTWS should be translated "in this way," with hWSTE possibly rendered as "and so."
This particular construction does not appear elsewhere in the Greek NT from what I have read, or really in the LXX either. So recourse is made to writers like Josephus, Philo, Demosthenes, and Epictetus to clarify the usage. The Loeb Classical Library often translates the construction with an intensive sense, but a paper I just read differed with LCL, claiming that in each case hOUTWS looked back to a previous context and had the meaning "in this way," rather than being an intensive "so."
Is anyone familiar with this issue sufficiently to have an opinion about it?
By the way, please tell me if the Greek text is legible as Greek. I exported John 3:16 from Bibleworks to Word and transferred it from Word to the emailer Thunderbird. It still looks Greek to me but perhaps not to others.
Thank you.
Yours,
Harold Holmyard
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