[B-Greek] John 3:16 "so"

Steve Runge srunge at logos.com
Wed Dec 16 00:25:12 EST 2009


See below... 

-----Original Message-----
From: b-greek-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org
[mailto:b-greek-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Harold Holmyard
Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2009 7:06 PM
To: B-Greek
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] John 3:16 "so"

Steve,
>
> I think the most likely reading is to see hOUTWS referring back to vv.
> 14-15.
>
> "Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, in this/the same

> way must the Son of Man be lifted up. For in this way God loved the 
> world, so that He gave his one and only Son..."
>
> Understood in this way, the hOUTWS is reiterating the content of vv.
> 14-15 that stresses Jesus being lifted up by comparison to the serpent

> in the wilderness, which is reiterated by hOUTWS. Note that the 
> translation looks really similar, the primary difference has to do 
> with the reference of hOUTWS, whether forward or backward.
>
> I gotta run my daughter to youth group, hope this will answer the 
> question.
>   

HH: Thanks. Yes, this is the way that the article I read goes about
interpreting the verse. It was written by Robert Gundry and someone else
and published in /Novum Testamentum/ in the 1999 volume, I think in the
first issue of the year. But, Steve, you have not yet handled the hWSTE
clause in translation. How would you handle it?

SER: I had held to a forward-pointing view before reading that article.
I found the way they went about their argument by saying what could not
happen unconvincing, but it challenged me to go back and rethink my
position. I failed to find an unambiguous example where hWSTE is the
target of the reference. 

In regard to hWSTE, note that the folks that understand hOUTWS as
cataphoric typically do not translate hWSTE. The drop it much like one
would normally do with hOTI following a verb of speaking. The treat is
as a marker rather than a meaningful particle. 

If you read hOUTWS as anaphoric, then hWSTE plays a meaningful role by
indicating how to relate the subordinate clause to the main clause. I
have yet to find another case where hWSTE would naturally be dropped.
The closest parallel I have found in 1 Cor 5:1, where hWSTE is referring
back to TOIAUTH PORNEIA. I will leave the question of broader Koine
usage to George and others. 

My gut feeling is that the KJV has so influenced and popularized the
reading of hOUTWS as cataphoric and degree-oriented that one is fighting
against hundreds of years of tradition. I do not think this is the most
natural or simplest reading, but it can (and has been) argued. The
answer to what to do with hWSTE depends on your interpretation of hOUTWS
as ana- or cataphoric.

Steve

HH: And of course the issue still remains whether the Loeb Classical
Library and other sources might be correct in handling hOUTWS . . . 
hWSTE in an intensive way in extra-biblical literature.

Yours,
Harold Holmyard

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