[B-Greek] Habbakuk 2:4b - objective genitive?

George F Somsel gfsomsel at yahoo.com
Sat Dec 19 11:49:24 EST 2009


In that case, it is certain that it would be understood as "God's faithfulness" rather than "faithfulness to God."
 george
gfsomsel 


… search for truth, hear truth, 
learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth, 
defend the truth till death.


- Jan Hus
_________ 



----- Original Message ----
From: yancywsmith <yancywsmith at sbcglobal.net>
To: b-greek <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Sat, December 19, 2009 9:33:03 AM
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Habbakuk 2:4b - objective genitive?

Eric,
    Another passage to consider that shows how Paul develops the concept  
of "PISTIS" rhetorically is Rom 3:5.

τί γάρ; εἰ ἠπίστησάν τινες, μὴ ἡ  
ἀπιστία αὐτῶν τὴν πίστιν τοῦ θεοῦ  
καταργήσει;
TI GAR EI HPISTHSAN TINES, MH hH APISTIA AUTWN THN PISTIN TOU QEOU  
KATARGHSEI?

A good case could be made that Paul is here alluding to the precise  
reading you are suggesting as a possibilty. So, the probability that  
it was one of several acceptable readings of the text goes up. It  
seems, as you seem to suggest, that Paul, in quoting Amb. 2:4 is  
loosening the reference in the prophetic text from any specific  
putative subject or object so that he can apply it in several  
different ways.

This has been an interesting and enlightening exchange on various  
levels.


Yancy Smith
yancywsmith at sbcglobal.net
5636 Wedgworth Rd.
Fort Worth, TX 76133
817-361-7565




On Dec 18, 2009, at 6:56 PM, Eric S. Weiss wrote:

> George:
>
> Why do you go the extra and needless step of turning PISTIS in  
> Habbakuk 2:4b (LXX) into
> the verb PISTEUW?
>
> One point I've tried to make about EK PISTEWS MOU in Habbakuk 2:4b  
> in arguing for
> allowing (not "proving") an objective genitive is that it's  
> grammatically and morphologically
> identical to the NT phrase EK PISTEWS IHSOU CRISTOU. One doesn't  
> have to turn the
> PISTEWS in EK PISTEWS IHSOU CRISTOU into the verb PISTEUW to see if  
> it takes a
> genitive or an accusative.
>
> I still don't understand your reasoning or your argument.
>
> ??
>
>> No, it really doesn't matter that one is a verb and its complement  
>> while the other is a
>> substantive and its suffix (in Hebrew) since according to Eric's  
>> proposal in Greek it
>> would be an objective gen which would therefore resolve to "shall  
>> live by believing in
>> me" (or "by believing me"?).  It therefore becomes verbal in  
>> nature.  I do not find πιστεύω
>> PISTEUW + gen pron except in Rom 10.14 πῶς δὲ  
>> πιστεύσωσιν οὗ οὐκ ἤκουσαν PWS
>> DE PISTEUSWSIN hOU OUK HKOUSAN.  There the gen appears to go  
>> with ἀκούω
>> AKOUW and not πιστεύω PISTEUW.
>>
>>  george
>> gfsomsel
>
> - - -
> Eric S. Weiss
>
>
>
> ---
> B-Greek home page: http://www.ibiblio.org/bgreek
> B-Greek mailing list
> B-Greek at lists.ibiblio.org
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-greek

---
B-Greek home page: http://www.ibiblio.org/bgreek
B-Greek mailing list
B-Greek at lists.ibiblio.org
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-greek



      



More information about the B-Greek mailing list