[B-Greek] Habbakuk 2:4b - objective genitive?

Bryant J. Williams III bjwvmw at com-pair.net
Sat Dec 19 12:08:55 EST 2009


Dear List,

I would suggest reading the following:
    Commentary on the New Testament Use of the Old Testament, edited by G. K.
Beale and D. A. Carson. Specifically the following:
    Romans, Mark A. Seifrid, pp. 608-611;
    Galatians, Moises Silva, pp. 791-804;
    Hebrews, George H. Guthrie, pp. 981-984.

The commentary by Seifrid, deals with the entire quote of Romans 1:16-17 and its
use in that context. Silva indicates in Galatians the juxtaposition between
Habakkuk 2:4 and Leviticus 18:5. Finally, Guthrie shows the use of Habakkuk
within the framework of the larger issue of OT quotes found in Hebrews 10 and
the New Covenant of Jeremiah.

The material in Beale and Carson is so vast that I would not be able to even
excerpt at this point.

Rev. Bryant J. Williams III
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "yancywsmith" <yancywsmith at sbcglobal.net>
To: "b-greek" <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Saturday, December 19, 2009 8:33 AM
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Habbakuk 2:4b - objective genitive?


> Eric,
> Another passage to consider that shows how Paul develops the concept
> of "PISTIS" rhetorically is Rom 3:5.
>
> τί γάρ; εἰ ἠπίστησάν τινες, μὴ ἡ
> ἀπιστία αὐτῶν τὴν πίστιν τοῦ θεοῦ
> καταργήσει;
> TI GAR EI HPISTHSAN TINES, MH hH APISTIA AUTWN THN PISTIN TOU QEOU
> KATARGHSEI?
>
> A good case could be made that Paul is here alluding to the precise
> reading you are suggesting as a possibilty. So, the probability that
> it was one of several acceptable readings of the text goes up. It
> seems, as you seem to suggest, that Paul, in quoting Amb. 2:4 is
> loosening the reference in the prophetic text from any specific
> putative subject or object so that he can apply it in several
> different ways.
>
> This has been an interesting and enlightening exchange on various
> levels.
>
>
> Yancy Smith
> yancywsmith at sbcglobal.net
> 5636 Wedgworth Rd.
> Fort Worth, TX 76133
> 817-361-7565
>
>
>
>
> On Dec 18, 2009, at 6:56 PM, Eric S. Weiss wrote:
>
> > George:
> >
> > Why do you go the extra and needless step of turning PISTIS in
> > Habbakuk 2:4b (LXX) into
> > the verb PISTEUW?
> >
> > One point I've tried to make about EK PISTEWS MOU in Habbakuk 2:4b
> > in arguing for
> > allowing (not "proving") an objective genitive is that it's
> > grammatically and morphologically
> > identical to the NT phrase EK PISTEWS IHSOU CRISTOU. One doesn't
> > have to turn the
> > PISTEWS in EK PISTEWS IHSOU CRISTOU into the verb PISTEUW to see if
> > it takes a
> > genitive or an accusative.
> >
> > I still don't understand your reasoning or your argument.
> >
> > ??
> >
> >> No, it really doesn't matter that one is a verb and its complement
> >> while the other is a
> >> substantive and its suffix (in Hebrew) since according to Eric's
> >> proposal in Greek it
> >> would be an objective gen which would therefore resolve to "shall
> >> live by believing in
> >> me" (or "by believing me"?).  It therefore becomes verbal in
> >> nature.  I do not find πιστεύω
> >> PISTEUW + gen pron except in Rom 10.14 πῶς δὲ
> >> πιστεύσωσιν οὗ οὐκ ἤκουσαν PWS
> >> DE PISTEUSWSIN hOU OUK HKOUSAN.  There the gen appears to go
> >> with ἀκούω
> >> AKOUW and not πιστεύω PISTEUW.
> >>
> >>   george
> >> gfsomsel
> >
> > - - -
> > Eric S. Weiss
> >
> >
> >
> > ---
> > B-Greek home page: http://www.ibiblio.org/bgreek
> > B-Greek mailing list
> > B-Greek at lists.ibiblio.org
> > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-greek
>
> ---
> B-Greek home page: http://www.ibiblio.org/bgreek
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>


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