[B-Greek] Did the shepherds believe? Luke 2:15
David Fish
dfish at occ.edu
Tue Dec 22 07:17:49 EST 2009
On Tue, Dec 22, 2009 at 5:51 AM, Jay Adkins <jayadkins264 at gmail.com> wrote:
Dear BGreek,
Luke 2:15b DIELQWMEN DH EWS BHQLEEM KAI IDWMEN TO RHMA TOUTO YEYOVOS O hO
KURIOS EGNWRISEN HMIN
“Let us go now to Bethlehem that we might see [if] this saying has happened
which the Lord has made known to us.”
“Let us go now to Bethlehem and see this thing that has happened which the
Lord has made known to us.”
The two subjunctives are hortatory, having the sense of a command.
Smyth (403-404, Sections 1797,1799) says:
"The hortatory subjunctive (present or aorist) is used to express a request
or a proposal (negative μή [MH]) . . .
The hortatory use of the subjunctive compensates for the absence of an
imperative of the first person."
It appears to me that it may be a bit of a stretch to say that the shepherds
believed. They very well may have believed. At the very least they proposed
to go to go to Bethlehem. You second proposed translation is preferred, as
both subjunctive verbs are hortatory . . . Let us go and (let us) see.
Gmail Sig
David
David G. Fish
Random Thoughts from a Fish <http://dfishocc.blogspot.com>
dfish at occ.edu
On Tue, Dec 22, 2009 at 5:51 AM, Jay Adkins <jayadkins264 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear BGreek,
>
> Luke 2:15b DIELQWMEN DH EWS BHQLEEM KAI IDWMEN TO RHMA TOUTO YEYOVOS O hO
> KURIOS EGNWRISEN HMIN
>
> “Let us go now to Bethlehem that we might see [if] this saying has happened
> which the Lord has made known to us.”
>
> “Let us go now to Bethlehem and see this thing that has happened which the
> Lord has made known to us.”
>
> When I first translated I thought to add the “[if]” into the words of the
> shepherds. I did this due to the subjunctive of both verbs. Since,
> however, I found no support from other translations, I removed it. And
> then
> I change the term ‘saying’ to ‘thing’ and also removed ‘that we might’
> replacing it with ‘and’ so as to make a smoother English phrase and to
> agree
> with the other translations. Now I understand that the subjunctive can be
> used for an imperative instead of potential action. My question is what
> key
> in the context is there here that I missed? How do we know for sure that
> the shepherds believed the word of the angels or were in some doubt and
> needed proof? Secondly, in a construct such as this one, can one
> subjunctive be used as an imperative and the other as a more normal
> subjunctive? I had no problem understanding from the context the first
> verb
> was to be used as an imperative. Should that have been enough to
> understand
> the second verb was also being used as an imperative?
>
> Once again let me thank all those who might respond and those responsible
> for this web site. It is such a blessing to be able to ask and learn from
> others.
>
> Merry Christmas to all.
>
> Sola Gratia
> jay adkins
> ---
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