[B-Greek] 2COR. 12:1 OPTASIAS KAI APOKALUYEIS KURIOU

Elizabeth Kline kline_dekooning at earthlink.net
Thu Dec 24 13:57:37 EST 2009



Thanks to George, Yancy, Iver for your valuable contributions.

On Dec 23, 2009, at 2:19 PM, Yancy Smith wrote:
>
> 3. While the visions and revelations are from the Lord it is also  
> possible that they may be about him as well
>
> Supporting:
> Thrall, Margaret E. A Critical and Exegetical Commentary on the  
> Second Epistle of St Paul to the Corinthians,
> Hughes, Philip Edgcumbe. Paul's Second Epistle to the Corinthians.  
> The New International Commentary on the New Testament,
> Martin, Ralph P. 2 Corinthians. Word Biblical Commentary


On Dec 23, 2009, at 9:19 PM, Iver Larsen wrote:

> I have said before that I think the dichotomy between "subjective  
> genitive" and "objective genitive" is not particularly helpful. Here  
> we seem to have the common "genitive of source/origin". The visions  
> and revelations come from the Lord.



I agree that the subjective/objective either/or is not necessary or  
helpful. Another example, not Pauline, is found in Rev 1:1

Rev. 1:1 Ἀποκάλυψις Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ ἣν  
ἔδωκεν αὐτῷ ὁ θεὸς δεῖξαι τοῖς  
δούλοις αὐτοῦ ἃ δεῖ γενέσθαι ἐν  
τάχει, καὶ ἐσήμανεν ἀποστείλας διὰ  
τοῦ ἀγγέλου αὐτοῦ τῷ δούλῳ αὐτοῦ  
Ἰωάννῃ,
.
REV. 1:1 APOKALUYIS IHSOU CRISTOU hHN EDWKEN AUTWi hO QEOS DEIXAI TOIS  
DOULOIS AUTOU hA DEI GENESQAI EN TACEI, KAI ESHMANEN APOSTEILAS DIA  
TOU AGGELOU AUTOU TWi DOULWi AUTOU IWANNHi,
.
This is not as ambiguous as OPTASIAS KAI APOKALUYEIS KURIOU in 2COR.  
12:1.  Here we see hO QEOS as an agent and IHSOU CRISTOU as a  
secondary agent (mediator) with TOU AGGELOU AUTOU as a third agent.  
Does this mean that IHSOU CRISTOU cannot be in some part, even a major  
part, the topic, the substance of the APOKALUYEWS? I don't think so.  
It seems best to just live the ambiguity of the genitive rather than  
try and remove it. Ambiguity is a beneficial feature of language, not  
a defect that needs to be repaired.

our text again:
2Cor. 12:1 Καυχᾶσθαι δεῖ, οὐ συμφέρον  
μέν, ἐλεύσομαι δὲ εἰς ὀπτασίας καὶ  
ἀποκαλύψεις κυρίου.
.
2COR. 12:1 KAUCASQAI DEI, OU SUMFERON MEN, ELEUSOMAI DE EIS OPTASIAS  
KAI APOKALUYEIS KURIOU.
.

I would agree with Margaret E. Thrall who takes KURIOU as belonging to  
both OPTASIAS KAI APOKALUYEIS. I am not inclined to rule out visions  
in favor of verbal revelations.

time our now for the holiday,

Elizabeth Kline







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