[B-Greek] LOGIZOMAI as a process (BDAG2)

Carl W. Conrad cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
Fri Jan 16 08:29:27 EST 2009


On Jan 16, 2009, at 8:17 AM, Kimmo Huovila wrote:

> BDAG gives LOGIZOMAI the sense "to give careful thought to a matter,  
> think
> (about), consider, ponder, let one's mind dwell on" (2). I  
> understand this to
> refer to thinking as a process, not as the result. Many of the  
> examples
> referred to are examples of a result of thinking; some refer to a  
> process of
> trying to reach a conclusion; none that I found refers to meditation  
> of any
> kind.

Don't you think we ought to distinguish between LOGIZESQAI  
(imperfective) and LOGISASQAI (perfective) in consideration of these  
passages. Granted that the verb does mean quite fundamentally "think,"  
it seems to me that the imperfective forms here must point to a  
process of reasoning, whether valid or faulty, while the perfective  
forms might more likely point to reaching a conclusion, coming to a  
decision.

> He gives the following examples: PsSol2, 28b; ApcEsdr 3:9, Philo,  
> Leg. All. 3,
> 227, Jos. Ant. 6, 211, Phil 4:8, PsSol 2, 28a, Philo, Somn 2, 169,  
> Jos., Ant
> 11, 142; Ath., R. 9 p. 57, 30; John 11:50; Hebr 11:19, 2 Cor 10:11,  
> 7; B 1:5,
> Hs 5, 2, 4; Luke 24:1 D; Hs 9, 28, 4; Dg 7:3 (Mel. T. 63, 455), X.,  
> An. 2, 2,
> 13; 1 Macc 6:19; 2 Cor 10:2a; Ps 51:4, 2 Cor. 3:5, Wsd 2:1, 1 Cor  
> 13:11.
>
> Phil 4:8 has often been interpreted as "letting one's mind dwell on  
> these
> things", "meditating on these things". I am not quite sure this is a  
> real
> meaning of this word and therefore a possible interpretation of the  
> verse
> despite the BDAG definition sounding as if it would be. I have not  
> checked
> all of BDAG's examples, but the following is a sample.
>
> 1 Macc 6:19 LXX KAI ELOGISATO IOUDAS EXARAI AUTOUS KAI EXEKKLHSIASE  
> PANTA TON
> LAON TOU PERIKAQISAI EP AUTOUS.
> - Result of thinking. Judas was not thinking of whether to destroy  
> them, but
> he purposed to do so and called the people to besiege them for that  
> purpose.
>
> Ps 51:4 LXX ADIKIAN ELOGISATO hH GLWSSA SOU
> - The tongue was not just contemplating injustice, but had deviced it.
>
> Wisdom (SOFIA SALOMWNOS) 2:1 EIPON GAR EN hEAUTOIS LOGISAMENOI OUK  
> ORQWS
> - This also refers to the conclusion of the thought process. They  
> were of the
> opinion that is expressed by what comes next in the context.
>
> Luke 24:1 D: THi DE MIAi TWN SABBATWN ORQROU BAQEWS EPI TO MNHMA HLQON
> FEROUSAI hA hTOIMASAN KAI TINES SUN AUTAIS ELOGIZONTO EN hEAUTAIS:  
> TIS ARA
> APOKULISEI TON LIQON.
> - This is one of the closest ones to the idea of meditation. This is  
> an
> attempt to figure out, not an attempt to meditate on a theme.
>
> John 11:50 OUDE LOGIZESQE hOTI SUMFEREI hUMIN hINA EIS ANQRWPOS  
> APOQANHi hUPER
> TOU LAOU KAI MH hOLON TO EQNOS APOLHTAI.
> - Result of thinking clearly referred to.
>
> 1 Cor 13:11 hOTE HMHN NHPIOS, ELALOUN hWS NHPIOS, EFRONOUN hWS NHPIOS,
> ELOGIZOMHN hWS NHPIOS.
> - I made childish conclusions, not necessarily that the thinking  
> process was
> childish.
>
> 2 Cor 3:5 OUX hOTI AF' hEAUTWN hIKANOI ESMEN LOGISASQAI TI hWS EX  
> hEAUTWN.
> - We are not sufficient to come to any conclusion about anything as  
> of our own
> ability.
>
> 2 Cor 10:2a DEOMAI DE TO MH PARWN QARRHSAI THi PEPOIQHSEI hHi  
> LOGIZOMAI
> TOLMHSAI (EPI TINAS TOUS LOGIZOMENOUS hHMAS hWS KATA SARKA  
> PERIPATOUNTAS.)
> - Result of thinking
>
> 2 Cor 10:7 TA KATA PROSWPON BLEPETE. EI TIS PEPOIQEN hEAUTWi XRISTOU  
> EINAI,
> TOUTO LOGIZESQW PALIN EF' hEAUTOU, hOTI KAQWS AUTOS XRISTOU, hOUTWS  
> KAI
> hHMEIS.
> - Result of thinking, let him be of this opinion.
>
> 2 Cor 10:11 TOUTO LOGIZESQW hO TOIOUTOS hOTI hOIOI ESMEN TWi LOGWi DI'
> EPISTOLWN APONTES, TOIOUTOI KAI PARONTES TWi ERGWi.
> - Result of thinking, let him be of this opinion.
>
> Phil 4:8 TO LOIPON, ADELFOI, hOSA ESTIN ALHQH, hOSA SEMNA, hOSA  
> DIKAIA, hOSA
> hAGNA, hOSA PROSFILH, hOSA EUFHMA, EI TIS ARETH KAI EI TIS EPAINOS,  
> TAUTA
> LOGIZESQE.
> - Take these things into account?
>
> Hebr 11:19 LOGISAMENOS hOTI KAI EK NEKRWN EGEIREIN DUNATOS hO QEOS,  
> hOQEN
> AUTON KAI EN PARABOLHi EKOMISATO.
> - Result of thinking
>
> Hermas, Similitudes 5, 2, 4 EN hEAUTWi OUN ELOGISATO: TAUTHN THN  
> ENTOLHN TOU
> KURIOU TETELEKA: SKAYW LOIPON TON AMPELWNA TOUTON, KAI ESTAI  
> EUPREPESTEROS
> ESKAMMENOS...
> - Result of thinking.
>
> Hermas, Similitudes 9, 28, 4 ... KAI ELOGISANTO EN TAIS KARDIAIS  
> AUTWN POTERON
> ARNHSONTAI H hOMOLOGESOUSI...
> - A process of trying to figure out a decision.
>
> Diognetos 7:3 ARA GE, hWS ANTQRWPON AN TIS LOGISAITO, EPI TURANNIDI  
> KAI FOBWi
> KAI KATAPLHXEI?
> - Like someone might think (be of opinion).
>
> Several of these clearly reflect the result of thinking, not the  
> process. When
> there is a process, there is an endeavor to reach a conclusion, to  
> figure
> something out.
>
> How justified are we lexically to think that Phil 4:8 has something  
> to do with
> meditating on "these things"? It seems that LOGIZOMAI is not used for
> meditation or letting one's mind dwell on someone without an attempt  
> to
> figure something out and come to a conclusion.
>
> Any opinions or thoughts?
>
> Kimmo Huovila
> ---
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Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Ret)




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