[B-Greek] verb root in John 1:29
Pastor
pastor at ruggleschurch.worthyofpraise.org
Mon Jul 13 16:00:36 EDT 2009
Carl,
Thank you for your insightful response. I will check out Smyth's grammar.
--- marty ---
Carl Conrad wrote:
>
> On Jul 13, 2009, at 1:56 PM, Elizabeth Kline wrote:
>
>>
>> On Jul 13, 2009, at 7:17 AM, Pastor wrote:
>>
>>> On my blog I am working through John trying to do "somewhat daily"
>>> parsing and translating. Today I was working on John 1:29 where John
>>> the
>>> Baptist says, "Behold, the Lamb of God..." John uses the verb*
>>> ???**(IDE). *I found it parsed differently by 2 online sites. One uses
>>> ???? (hORAW) as the root, and the other uses ???? (EIDW).
>>
>>
>>
>> John 1:29 Τῇ ἐπαύριον βλέπει τὸν Ἰησοῦν
>> ἐρχόμενον πρὸς αὐτὸν καὶ λέγει·
>> ἴδε ὁ ἀμνὸς τοῦ θεοῦ ὁ αἴρων τὴν
>> ἁμαρτίαν τοῦ κόσμου.
>>
>> JOHN 1:29 THi EPAURION BLEPEI TON IHSOUN ERCOMENON PROS AUTON KAI
>> LEGEI· IDE hO AMNOS TOU QEOU hO AIRWN THN hAMARTIAN TOU KOSMOU.
>> Here IDE functions as an interjection. It takes the form of the
>> imperative of EIDW. EIDON is used for aorist forms of hORAW or hORAW
>> is used for present and perfect forms of EIDON. There are historical
>> issues here, Carl is an expert so I will not attempt to address them.
>
> One of the more irritating features of Greek lexicography is the
> listing of "lemma" --the reference form -- of verbs by forms that
> either have never appeared in any extant Greek texts or that became
> obsolete very early. Randall Buth in particular has argued that verbs
> ought to be lemmatized with infinitives of the tense- and voice-form
> generally seen in standard usage. We've also discussed a hypothetical
> lexicon for Hellenistic Greek with definitions set forth in
> Hellenistic Greek; that would necessarily involve, I believe, useful
> information regarding both cognates and differentiations of roughly
> synonymous verbs such as BLEPW, hORAW, EIDON, OYOMAI, OIDA, etc., etc.
>
> If you look up EIDW in LSJ, you'll find:
> "εἴδω [EIDW], no Act. pres. in use, ὁράω [hORAW] being used:—"
> You ought to expect to find EIDON, but you won't find it. You ought to
> expect to find OIDA, and you do, but the entry says, "οἶδα [OIDA], v.
> εἴδω [EIDW] B."
>
> One of the reasons that Smyth's grammar is so much more valuable than
> any Hellenistic or NT grammar I personally know of is that it contains
> a lengthy appendix with a compendious listing of all ancient Geek
> verbs (those at least that appear in Greek literaure down through the
> earlier Hellenistic era):
> http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0007%3Apart%3D5
>
> = http://tinyurl.com/kr62j7
> It is really very much worth one's while to spend some time perusing
> these listings as one has time to do so. If one has taken the time to
> learn something of ancient Greek phonology (also amply set forth in
> Smyth's grammar), then the information provided in the verb listing
> will be all the more revealing. I've learned most of what I know about
> *EIDW from Smyth.
>
> The verb shows forms derived from vowel gradation of EI/OI/I of a root
> beginning with digamma (f) and ending in D: fEID/fOID/fID; it is
> related to the Latin root vid- (the verb videre, "see") and to English
> "wit", "wisdom", and Elizabethan English "wist" in Luke 2:49 "wist ye
> not that I must be about my Father’s business?"
> In Koine Greek the relevant forms are the aorist EIDON (originlly
> EfIDON from root 'fID') and perfect-tense OIDA from root 'fOID' which
> also uses the root EID- (fEID) in the non-indicative forms. Older
> Greek has a present middle EIDOMAI which means "look like" or "appear."
>
> It's somewhat curious that Hellenistic Greek still uses both an active
> aorist imperative IDE and a middle aorist imperative IDOU. IDOU seems
> more a demonstrative adverb or interjection calling atttention to
> something: "Hey!" like French "voici" and "voilá", whereas IDE/IDETE
> retains the stronger verbal notion, "see, perceive, take note of."
>
>
>
> Carl W. Conrad
> Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
>
>
>
>
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