[B-Greek] ASQENESTERWi SKEUEI in 1 Peter 3:7

Carl Conrad cwconrad2 at mac.com
Sat Jul 25 07:00:15 EDT 2009


On Jul 24, 2009, at 10:09 PM, Oun Kwon wrote:

> On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 6:07 AM, Carl Conrad<cwconrad2 at mac.com> wrote:
>>
> <clipped>
>
>> Evidently this notion of the adjective ASQENHS having the sense of
>> "vulnerable" and having a "positive" connotation. I'm rather dubious
>> about this notion myself. On the one hand, I would agree that
>> "vulnerable" is one common idea associated with the adjective, but I
>> question that vulnerability is ever really conceived as something  
>> good
>> in the ancient view. In particular, it seems to me that the notion of
>> "fragile, delicate femininity" is closer to modern romantic, even
>> Victorian conceptions of womanhood than to ordinary ancient
>> sensibilities.
>>
>
> <clipped>
>
> 'vulnerable' is a marvelous choice; better than 'fragile'. 'Weaker' is
> not enough, easily misunderstood as simple 'physically weaker' (though
> many are). Their socio-economic weakness is a norm in the past, but it
> is not in the context here.
>
> As I listened to these interesting discussions, such understanding of
> the text seems to come from seeing it as the punctuation given as:
>
> 1Pe 3:7	
> Οἱ ἄνδρες ὁμοίως συνοικοῦντες  
> κατὰ γνῶσιν,
> ὡς ἀσθενεστέρῳ σκεύει τῷ  
> γυναικείῳ ἀπονέμοντες τιμήν,
> ὡς καὶ συγκληρονόμοις χάριτος ζωῆς,
> εἰς τὸ μὴ ἐγκόπτεσθαι τὰς  
> προσευχὰς ὑμῶν.
>
> hOI ANDRES hOMOIWS SUNOIKOUNTES KATA GNWSIN,
> hWS ASQENESTERW SKEUEI TW GUNAIKEIW APONEMONTES TIMHN,
> hWS KAI SUGKLHRONOMOIS CARITOS ZWHS,
> EIS TO MH EGKOPTESQAI TAS PROSEUCAS hUMWN.
>
> With such line breaks, hOS ASQENESTERW is (strangely to me) connected
> to APONEMONTES TIMHN.
>
> The way I have understood this verse is as with the following
> punctuations (as well as line breaks - a poor man's diagramming).
>
> Οἱ ἄνδρες ὁμοίως συνοικοῦντες,
> 		κατὰ γνῶσιν ὡς ἀσθενεστέρῳ  
> σκεύει·
> 	τῷ γυναικείῳ ἀπονέμοντες τιμήν
> 		ὡς καὶ συγκληρονόμοις χάριτος  
> ζωῆς·
> εἰς τὸ μὴ ἐγκόπτεσθαι τὰς  
> προσευχὰς ὑμῶν.
>
> hOI ANDRES hOMOIWS SUNOIKOUNTES,
>               KATA GNWSIN hWS ASQENESTERW SKEUEI·
>       TW GUNAIKEIW APONEMONTES TIMHN
>              hWS KAI SUGKLHRONOMOIS CARITOS ZWHS·
> EIS TO MH EGKOPTESQAI TAS PROSEUCAS hUMWN.
>
> Here, 'woman being a vulnerable vessel' is not connected at all to
> 'giving honor' ('showing respect').  The text simply says, 'Give honor
> as befitting to a woman.'
>
> This verse is really a beautiful statement by Peter's pen, showing his
> sensitivity and concern about how women feel. [It is in which I fail
> miserably.]
>
> Please kindly give me any correction on my understanding of the  
> syntax.

The question is whether you can legitimately understand TWi GUNAIKEIWi  
as independent of ASQENESTERWi SKEUEI. GUNAIKEIWi is not a noun  
meaning "woman" but an adjective meaning "womanly" or "wifely" or  
"feminine" Ordinarily an adjective that agrees with a noun (here  
SKEUEI) and that is preceded by an article is deemed attributive to  
the noun. If in fact you envision TWi GUNAIKEIWi APONEMONTES TIMHN as  
a syntactic unit, then it will mean "allotting honor to what is  
womanlywifely." It sounds a bit like "das ewig Weiblich" to which  
Goethe pays tribute in the final line of his epic drama, Faust.





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