[B-Greek] ESTIN Accent?

Richard Ghilardi qodeshlayhvh at juno.com
Wed Jun 3 15:08:22 EDT 2009


Hello George,

Sorry George, it does not answer my question. Quite the opposite, this
somewhat confusing statement by Robertson only serves to raise more
issues. The first issue is text. I am working from NA27, he from WH. I'm
really not concerned with what WH has. My questions will focus on the
NA27 text. I only examined vss where E/STIN was printed. Robertson also
cites vss where ESTI/N is found but which might be more properly accented
as E/STIN. I will treat selected vss from Robertson individually.

I Jn 3:2 - KAQWS E/STIN - doesn't this express existence? "just as He
exists" So it should be E/STIN.
The same could be said for Jn 4:23; 5:25. Rob. is wrong.

Mt 2:2; Mk 14:14 - Rob. is right about these vss, ESTI\N. They express
mere location, not existence.

Lk 1:61; 7:28; 18:29 - Rob. is right about these vss.  They ought to be
E/STIN and not ESTIN as in NA27.

Col 1:15, 17
15 - hOS E/STIN EIKWN TOY QEOY (Rob. has ESTIN as does NA27) E/STIN
begins the clause and so is emphatic. 17- KAI AYTOS E/STIN PRO PANTWN
(Rob. is right here because E/STIN is existential. But NA27 inexplicably
has ESTIN.)

2 Th 2:4 - APODEIKNYNTA hEAYTON hOTI E/STIN QEOS - Rob. is right here
along with UBS4, but NA27 has ESTI\N. Since E/STIN is fronted the meaning
must be "showing himself to BE God" rather than "showing himself to be
GOD." The verse builds very nicely to the former but not to the latter.

Mk 6:55 - Like Mt 2:2 and Mk 14:14 this vs expresses mere location. not
existence. Rob. is wrong. And it should be hOTI ESTI/N as in NA27.

Heb 11:6 - Rob. and NA27 are both right here -- E/STIN

Acts 23:5 - OYK HiDEIN, ADELFOI, hOTI E/STIN ARXIEREYS - This vs is
analogous to 2 Th 2:4. If Luke (Paul) wanted to stress ARXIEREYS, he
would have fronted it -- hOTI ARXIEREYS ESTIN. Rob. and NA27 are wrong.

Rob. and NA27 are right about the remaining vss.

Now for Rev 17:18 - KAI hH GYNH HN EIDES E/STIN hH POLIS hH MEGALH hH
EXOUSA BASILEIAN EPI
TWN BASILEWN THS GHS.
Rob. says of this vs: << But the cases are numerous where E/STIN is
correct, as when it is emphatic, and expresses existence or possibility,
as in EI=DES E/STIN (Rev. 17:18) >>

Now let's see which of the 2 (or 3) categories Rob. mentions this vs
might fit. It certainly doesn't express possibility, "It is possible that
the woman you saw is the great city." Absurd. Nor existence: "the woman
you saw exists (as) the great city." I should think hWS would be
necessary. It is unclear from the above quote whether emphasis is a third
category apart from existence and possibility or whether emphasis is
expressed through existence and possibility. I will assume the former
since we've already run out of two categories. It is obvious to me that
this verse expresses identity and that E/STIN is equative. So Rob. would
claim that E/STIN is emphatic. I would ask him, "How do you know that?"
He could not answer that it is accented paroxytone because that is a
circular argument. Emphatic because paroxytone, paroxytone because
emphatic. Absurd. He also could not answer that E/STIN is fronted in its
clause because it is not. I cannot think of any other reason why one
might claim that E/STIN is emphatic. If it is not, then it cannot be
paroxytone and shouldn't be accented that way as NA27 does.

Yours in His grace,

Richard Ghilardi - qodeshlayhvh at juno.com
West Haven, Connecticut USA

On Tue, 2 Jun 2009 22:10:41 -0700 (PDT) George F Somsel
<gfsomsel at yahoo.com> writes:
Perhaps this answers your question

The use of ?st?? ESTI/N and ?st?? E/STIN demands special comment. When
unemphatic, not at the beginning of a sentence, not preceded by ???'
ALL', e? EI, ?a? KAI, ??? OUK, ?t? hOTI, t??t' TOUT', or a paroxytone
syllable, as, for example, in ???da??? ?st?? IOUDAIWN ESTI/N (Jo. 4:22),
we have unaccented ?st?? ESTIN as in ????? ?st?? AGRO/S ESTIN (Mt. 13:38,
39), ?a??? ?st?? KAQW\S ESTIN (1 Jo. 3:2), etc. In some examples of mild
emphasis W. H. have ?st?? ESTIN, as in ??? ?st?? NUN ESTI/N (Jo. 4:23;
5:25), p?? ?st?? POU ESTI/N (Mt. 2:2; Mk. 14:14). But the cases are
numerous where ?st?? E/STIN is correct, as when it is emphatic, and
expresses existence or possibility, as in e?de? ?st?? EI=DES E/STIN (Rev.
17:18), a?t?? ?st?? AUTOU= E/STIN (Ac. 2:29), ????? ?st?? hA/GION E/STIN
(Ac. 19:2), ? e?? ?st?? hO hEI=S E/STIN (Rev. 17:10), ??de?? ?st??
OUDEI\S E/STIN (Lu. 1:61; 7:28; 18:29). ?st?? E/STIN is also the accent
at the beginning of sentences, as in Jo. 21:25; 1 Cor. 15:44; 1 Jo. 5:16
f.; Heb. 11:1. Cf. ?st?? ESTI/N in Col. 1:15 and ?st?? E/STIN in 1:17.
Then again we have, according to the usual rule, ?st?? E/STIN after ???'
ALL' (Jo. 13:10), e? EI (1 Cor. 15:44), ?a? KAI\ (Mk. 12:11; 2 Cor. 4:3),
?t? hO/TI (2 Th. 2:4; Mk. 6:55; Heb. 11:6), but ?t? ?st?? hOTI ESTI\N
(Ac. 23:5) when the idea of existence is not stressed, ??? OUK (1 Cor.
11:20; Ro. 8:9, etc.), t??t' TOUT' (Mk. 7:2; Ro. 7:18). W. H. give only
?st?? ESTI/N after p?? POU= (Jo. 9:12; 11:57; Mk. 14:14). 

Robertson, A. (1919; 2006). A Grammar of the Greek New Testament in the
Light of Historical Research (233). Logos.

 
george
gfsomsel 



… search for truth, hear truth, 
learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth, 
defend the truth till death.



- Jan Hus
_________ 






From: Richard Ghilardi <qodeshlayhvh at juno.com>
To: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
Sent: Tuesday, June 2, 2009 3:39:35 PM
Subject: [B-Greek] ESTIN Accent?

Hello Folks,

I have examined every instance of paroxytone ESTIN in the NT and I am
satisfied that I can explain its use in every case except Rev 17:18.

KAI hH GYNH HN EIDES E/STIN hH POLIS hH MEGALH hH EXOUSA BASILEIAN EPI
TWN BASILEWN THS GHS.

In vss 8, 10 and 11 as well as in 21:1 the reason for the accented penult
is apparent: E/STIN is existential. But it certainly is not in 17:18. So
my question is: Why did the editors choose to accent E/STIN as
paroxytone?

Yours in His grace,

Richard Ghilardi - qodeshlayhvh at juno.com
West Haven, Connecticut USA
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