[B-Greek] Etymology
Sarah Madden
sarah.r.madden at gmail.com
Sun Jun 28 21:58:47 EDT 2009
Thanks, Mark and Carl, for clearing this up --
Part of me hesititated to even ask the question because I thought
"Syniastical" could possibly be a real term -- but it could also be a spoof,
given the string of hilarious tongue-in-cheek messages regarding genitive
types, but I allowed tor the tiniest possibility that it might be a serious
term. BTW, try Googling "Syniasticalized" and you do actually get some hits,
not that they're in the least bit comprehensible. :-)
Sarah :Madden
On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 5:59 PM, Mark Lightman <lightmanmark at yahoo.com>wrote:
> Sarah,
>
> Yes, Carl is exactly right.
>
> "Syniasticalized noun" is sort of a tongue-in-cheek term I came up with
> to describe these substantives that begin with SUN or SUS or SUG or SUM or
> SUL.
> Actually, most of these are adjectives which are often used as nouns.
> It seems as if the only "syn words" listed as nouns are words that end in
> THS like
> SUMPOTHS (drinking buddy) or TWP like SULLHPTWP ("accomplice")
> or those ending in IA or something. All the words in the passage from
> Ephesians that Bill asked about are technically adjectives.
>
> "Syniastical genitive" is me having a little fun with the multiplication of
> categories to describe what sort of genitive something is. But there is
> as serious point. Most of these words do "take" the genitive. I noticed
> that
> LSJ will sometimes add "TINOS" and sometimes not. I wonder if any of
> these words take the dative, as you might expect since SUN itself "takes"
> the dative. And I wonder if you have any interesting constructions where
> a syntiastical word can take a genitive of the thing and a dative of the
> person or the or visa versa.
>
> Thanks for asking about this. Greek can get so weird that it is
> sometimes hard to tell if someone is joking or not. And I spent
> a little too much time last night with the SUMPOTAI. :)
>
> Mark L.
> Μαρκος Φωσφορος
>
>
> --- On *Sun, 6/28/09, Sarah Madden <sarah.r.madden at gmail.com>* wrote:
>
>
> From: Sarah Madden <sarah.r.madden at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Etymology
> To: "Mark Lightman" <lightmanmark at yahoo.com>
> Cc: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org, "Bill Shea" <bshea at ksu.edu>
> Date: Sunday, June 28, 2009, 2:57 PM
>
> Mark --
> What is a "syniactical genitive" or a "syniasticalized noun"? -- and what
> do they have to do with the question about "SUN" and its different forms
> depending on the word to which it is attached?
>
> Sarah ><>
> Maryland - USA
> sarah.r.madden at gmail.com<http://us.mc636.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=sarah.r.madden@gmail.com>
>
> On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 1:06 PM, Mark Lightman <lightmanmark at yahoo.com<http://us.mc636.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=lightmanmark@yahoo.com>
> > wrote:
>
>> Yes, and THS EPAGGELIAS is a syniactical genitive, used after
>> syniasticalized nouns.
>>
>> Mark L
>> Φωσφορος
>>
>> --- On Sun, 6/28/09, George F Somsel <gfsomsel at yahoo.com<http://us.mc636.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=gfsomsel@yahoo.com>>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: George F Somsel <gfsomsel at yahoo.com<http://us.mc636.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=gfsomsel@yahoo.com>
>> >
>> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Etymology
>> To: "Carl Conrad" <cwconrad2 at mac.com<http://us.mc636.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=cwconrad2@mac.com>>,
>> "Bill Shea" <bshea at ksu.edu<http://us.mc636.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=bshea@ksu.edu>
>> >
>> Cc: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org<http://us.mc636.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=b-greek@lists.ibiblio.org>
>> Date: Sunday, June 28, 2009, 10:36 AM
>>
>>
>>
>> εἶναι τὰ ἔθνη συγκληρονόμα καὶ σύσσωμα καὶ συμμέτοχα τῆς ἐπαγγελίας ἐν
>> Χριστῷ Ἰησοῦ διὰ τοῦ εὐαγγελίου,
>> EINAI TA EQNH SUGKLHRONOMA KAI SUSSWMA KAI SUMMETOXA THS EPAGGELIAS EN
>> XRISTWi IHSOU DIA TOU EUAGGELIOU
>>
>> The SU prefix of which you speak is simply the combination of the word
>> with the preposition σύν. We see several in instances in this passage:
>> συγκληρονόμα SUGKLHRONOMA, σύσσωμα SUSSWMA and συμμέτοχα SUMMETOXA. It
>> takes slightly different forms depending upon what the first letter of the
>> word with which it is combined happens to be.
>>
>> george
>> gfsomsel
>>
>>
>> … search for truth, hear truth,
>> learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth,
>> defend the truth till death.
>>
>>
>> - Jan Hus
>> _________
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Carl Conrad <cwconrad2 at mac.com<http://us.mc636.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=cwconrad2@mac.com>
>> >
>> To: Bill Shea <bshea at ksu.edu<http://us.mc636.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=bshea@ksu.edu>
>> >
>> Cc: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org<http://us.mc636.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=b-greek@lists.ibiblio.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 7:32:48 AM
>> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Etymology
>>
>> On Jun 28, 2009, at 10:00 AM, Bill Shea wrote:
>>
>> > ---
>> > B-Greek home page: http://www.ibiblio.org/bgreek
>> > B-Greek mailing list
>> > B-Greek at lists.ibiblio.org<http://us.mc636.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=B-Greek@lists.ibiblio.org>
>> > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-greek
>>
>> [CWC as BG Co-Chair] The message as sent to list-members was truncated
>> because of its original multi-part MIME format; our list software
>> strips away formatting that is not or that cannot be co;nverted to
>> plain-text ASCII. Here's the original message as sent to iBiblio:
>> ========
>> From: Bill Shea <bshea at ksu.edu<http://us.mc636.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=bshea@ksu.edu>
>> >
>> Date: June 28, 2009 10:00:22 AM EDT
>> To: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org<http://us.mc636.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=b-greek@lists.ibiblio.org>
>> Subject: Etymology
>>
>> I am interested in the etymology of the Greek prefix SU, particularly
>> as it relates to Ephesians 3:6.
>>
>> Bill Shea
>>
>> P.S. This is my first posting to the list. I just found it today.
>> =========
>> The text in question:
>> Eph. 3:6 εἶναι τὰ ἔθνη συγκληρονόμα καὶ
>> σύσσωμα καὶ συμμέτοχα τῆς
>> ἐπαγγελίας ἐν Χριστῷ Ἰησοῦ διὰ τοῦ
>> εὐαγγελίου,
>> [EINAI TA EQNH SUGKLHRONOMA KAI SUSSWMA KAI SUMMETOCA THS EPAGGELIAS
>> EN CRISTWi IHSOU DIA TOU EUAGGELIOU.[
>>
>> The prefix appearing in the three adjectives here, SUGKLHRONOMA,
>> SUSSWMA, and SUMMETOCA, is actually not SU- but rather SUN, identical
>> with the preposition SUN, ordinarily Englished as "with" or "together
>> with" or "in company with." The -N- of SUN- as prefix regularly
>> assimilates to a following consonant.
>>
>> I don't know that there's really anything particularly useful to say
>> about the etymology of SUN-; in older Ionic and Attic dialects one
>> finds it as XUN (ξυν)with a cognate adjective XUNOS [ξυνός,
>> ή, όν ] that is synonymous with KOINOS [κοινός, -η, -ον] in
>> sense.
>>
>> Carl W. Conrad
>> Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>>
>>
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>>
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>
>
>
> --
> Sarah ><>
> sarah.r.madden at gmail.com<http://us.mc636.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=sarah.r.madden@gmail.com>
> work: 301.429.8189
>
>
>
--
Sarah ><>
sarah.r.madden at gmail.com
work: 301.429.8189
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