[B-Greek] Luke 9:27
Eric Ciampa
ericc at ccvnow.com
Wed Mar 18 18:21:30 EDT 2009
I have two thoughts:
(1) I think Thomas is original inquiry concerned whether GEUSWNTAI
QANATOS could allow or exclude a more metaphorical meaning or if it
always refers to a physical death. To answer that question, and this
is my opinion, the Greek word is similar to the english word in that
it primarily (lexically) refers to physical death but is often
utilized in metaphorical language. See Romans 7:7-13 as a good NT
example. Now, how to properly identify and interpret metaphorical
language definitely falls under the "hermeneutics" category and
therefore is off limits here. I will only say that I do not see any
evidence for this in Luke 9:27 and would have to agree with Elizabeth.
(2) Carl, Elizabeth and others rightly noted that the real
hermeneutical land mine in this passage is not QANATOS but THN
BASILEIAN TOU QEOU. And I would encourage you to concentrate your
search for or interpretive gold on this phrase rather than QANATOS. I
am sure that you could email some of us off board (that is kosher,
right?) if you have any more questions on what we are referring to.
ERIC R. CIAMPA
Journey Director
Christ's Church of the Valley
Phone: 626.859.0161 x147
Email: ericc at ccvnow.com
On Mar 18, 2009, at 12:52 PM, David Phillips wrote:
> I think it may also be worthwhile to look at the two other NT passages
> (apart from the synoptic parallels) where the phrase occurs -
> Hebrews 2:9
> and John 8:52.
>
> Dave Phillips
>
> On Wed, Mar 18, 2009 at 3:36 PM, Carl Conrad <cwconrad2 at mac.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>> On Mar 18, 2009, at 2:38 PM, Thomas Hagen wrote:
>>
>>> At a Bible study recently, we were looking at Luke 9:23-27 where
>>> Jesus talks about carrying one’s own cross daily after him and the
>>> possibility of losing one’s life when you try to save it or of
>>> saving it when you lose it for his sake. The passage concludes with
>>> verse 27:
>>>
>>> But I tell you truly, there are some standing here who will not
>>> taste death until they see the kingdom of God.
>>>
>>> λέγω δὲ ὑμῖν ἀληθῶς, εἰσίν τινες
>>> τῶν αὐτοῦ ἑστηκότων οἳ οὐ μὴ
>>> γεύσωνται θανάτου ἕως ἂν ἴδωσιν
>>> τὴν βασιλείαν τοῦ θεοῦ.
>>>
>>> LEGW DE hUMIN ALHQWS EISIN TINES TWN AUTOU hESTHKOTWN hOI OU MH
>>> GEUSWNTAI QANATOU hEWS AN IDWSIN THN BASILEIAN TOU QEOU.
>>>
>>> Someone suggested that the “death” in verse 27 might refer to
>>> the
>>> existential death to our own ego and will that Jesus refers to
>>> through the reference to the cross and losing one’s own life. In
>>> this case, verse 27 would be a negative, rather bitter admission on
>>> the part of Jesus that some of his listeners would not succeed in
>>> achieving that kind of death until they were, in a sense, smacked in
>>> the face or, perhaps better, kicked in the seat (!) by the kingdom
>>> of God where, standing before the glory of God, they will have no
>>> choice but to relinquish all claims to their own ego.
>>>
>>> Is there anything in the text that might suggest this kind of
>>> reading? Or is this simply an expression of Jesus’ conviction that
>>> the kingdom was to come shortly in all its power?
>>
>> I think that you are raising some questions here that lie outside the
>> realm of what the Greek text itself can clarify. You might, however,
>> look at other passages in Luke using the phrase hH BASILEIA TOU QEOU;
>> you also might want to compare Luke's formulation of this Jesus-
>> saying
>> with the formulation of the same saying in Matthew and Mark. But how
>> you resolve the question to your own satisfaction will depend upon
>> your own hermeneutical assumptions rather than upon the Greek text
>> itself -- and we don't discuss hermeneutics in this forum.
>>
>> Carl W. Conrad
>>
>>
>> Carl W. Conrad
>> Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
>>
>>
>>
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