[B-Greek] John 2:4 - TI EMOI KAI SOI

Jeff Smelser jeffsmelser at ntgreek.net
Thu Mar 19 17:59:15 EDT 2009


I rarely post, in part because I generally feel the need to think things 
through before posting, and by the time I get around to being ready to 
say anything, it's already been covered and the conversation has moved 
on. But I'm about to get on the road for a trip back down to your area, 
George, so no time to think this through as much as perhaps I should, 
and I'm just going to send it!

Τί ἐμοὶ καὶ σοί, TI EMOI KAI SOI "what to me is also to you," seems to 
me to amount to "What is of common concern?"  We have  different 
agendas; what concerns you doesn't concern me, or /vice versa/. I think 
it  must be a similar idiom in Mt. 27:19 where Pilate's wife declares 
affirmatively, Μηδὲν σοὶ καὶ τῷ δικαίῳ ἐκείνῳ (MHDEN SOI KAI TWi DIKAIWi 
EKEINWi, Mt. 27:19), "nothing to you is also to that righteous man," in 
other words, you don't need to be mixed up with him, don't get entangled 
with him, his affair is not your affair.

Such an expression could be intended to make a point with no disrespect 
(e.g. Jn. 2:4), or it could be a plea to be left alone (Mk. 5:8, Lk. 
8:28).  (It seems to me that this expression occurs elsewhere also, 
maybe in the LXX, but I don't have time to check.) Then there is Mt. 
27:4 (Τί πρὸς ἡμᾶς, TI PROS hHMAS, "What's that to us?") which seems 
dismissive. Whether to regard TI PROS hHMAS as similar or dissimilar, I 
don't know. (Obviously it's a one-sided formulation rather than a mutual 
formulation.) If it ought to be reckoned in the same category as TI EMOI 
KAI SOI, then only context would indicate whether the expression is 
dismissive.

Jeff Smelser
www.ntgreek.net



George F Somsel wrote:
> Nigel Turner has a section on this very passage in _Grammatical Insights into the New Testament_ titled "Madam, Leave This to Me (John 2:4).  I'm not sure that I'm in complete agreement with him on this though I probably am not in great disagreement.  It seems to me that something like "What's the point?"  might be appropriate.
>
> george
> gfsomsel 
>
>
> … search for truth, hear truth, 
> learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth, 
> defend the truth till death,.
>
>
> - Jan Hus
> _________ 
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Emil Salim <neokantian at gmail.com>
> To: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
> Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 2:55:26 PM
> Subject: [B-Greek] John 2:4 - TI EMOI KAI SOI
>
> Text:
> KAI LEGEI AUTHi hO IHSOUS; TI EMOI KAI SOI, GUNAI? OUPW hHKEI hH hHWRA MOU.
>
> I am aware that TI EMOI KAI SOI is a rather popular phrase that means "what
> have I to do with thee?" (see Smyth #1479, for example). Translated thus, it
> sounds to me like Jesus didn't really care about Mary's concern that the
> wedding party in Kana was running out of wine, as though Jesus was saying:
> "why should I care about what you're concerned with?"
>
> I was wondering, though, whether we can translate the phrase more literally
> as saying: "what is it to me that is (also) to you?" This is admittedly an
> awkward translation and not real English. But is it possible to translate
> the phrase along this line: "what is my concern that is also your concern?"?
> Rendered this way, the phrase might convey a different tone, viz., that
> Jesus was asking Mary whether *she* was concerned with what's important for
> him, and not the other way around. Thanks!
>
> Emil Salim
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