[B-Greek] Voice matters again with pedagogy
Randall Buth
randallbuth at gmail.com
Fri Mar 27 11:51:32 EDT 2009
Carl apekrineto John S,
[JS]
> I believe that Dr. Buth is
> quite correct in introducing these words as separate vocabulary
> items. But where MESH does emphasize the subject, I would introduce
> the two forms together.
[CC]
This is a question of lexicography; I do think that a lexical entry
should show clearly that an active causative form such as hISTHMI
belongs to the same verbal complex as the more primary middle-voice
form hISTAMAI. That's a separate question; I'd suggest an entry such as:
STHNAI "stand, halt"; STHSAI "cause to stand, cause to halt" and then
go out to spell out the details.
[RB]
For the record I am very happy with presenting STHNAI 'stand' as STHNAI
and STHSAI 'cause to stand' as STHSAI. They are approximately as
different as ARKSAI 'to rule, be at head' and ARKSASQAI 'to begin, engage
at the head' (though these meanings occasionally 'bleed' into each other !),
or APSAI and APSASQAI.
More importantly, how to signal their relationship in a lexicon is a separate
question from how to learn them. It has been psychologically fulfilling to
deal with verbs in their 'primary' voice and ignore most questions of
potential passive 'demotions' in beginning stages of language learning.
Students think of APOKRIQHNAI 'to answer' and POREYQHNAI 'to go'
as belonging to the same category and only later learn that some verbs use
these endings for 'agent demoting passive structures'.
In terms of pedagogy, we (Biblical Language Center) use STHNAI from
day one, imperative STHQI 'stand still', = QELW SE STHNAI,
but only get around to STHSAI toward the end of the course. And
with this particular verb we only use ESTANAI (parakeimenos, aka, perfect)
in paratatikon 'continuative' contexts.
Leave it to the Greeks, of course, to
be inconsistent and to use the true paratatikon forms with "derived"
vocabulary like ANASTHNAI 'to stand up' ANISTASQAI (!) be standing up.
Which we use in appropriate contexts.
There is still something to be learned in Greek pedagogy and in
reconstructing how Greeks thought of these things themselves.
. . .
[CC]
Of course,
we talk about voice matters (occasionally) in this forum, but outside
of this forum, who cares?
[RB]
MH AQYMEI ! QARSEI !
Students who try to use this language care alot. We have had several
students comment on how the pedagogy has led them to relearn and
re-relate to what they thought they had already correctly "learned" in
traditional
grammar-translation approaches. E.g., it is common for students to want
to say ΙΣΤΗΜΙ ISTHMI for "I am standing", because that is what they
memorized in their first year Greek class, or on a flashcard.
They learn to say ESTHKA
and use the APAREMFATA: STHNAI and ESTANAI.
And they find out that most of the common Greek verbs have a preferred,
common voice that one should adopt and use because,
"that's the way the Greeks do it".
PS (postscript):
Yes, I know that this leaves things like AITHSASQAI and AITHSAI 'to request'
unanswered. But as consolation it gives us wonderful verbs like
ELESQAI ~ AIREISQAI: ELOY 'choose!' to be internalized separately from
all the bloodshed involved in ELEIN and AIREIN.)
And we get to learn such wonderful paradigms as
EILOMHN 'I chose'
EILOY 'you ...'
EILATO 's/he/it ...'
with the equally inconsistent Koine plural:
EILOMEQA
EILESQE
EILANTO
(The third person verbs break form and use "1st aorist" '-LA-' endings,
while 1st and 2nd persons use O/E endings.)
It's how we recommend learning/using the KOINH. It's not so bad if
you hear/see it used that way in class.
We are interested in the KOINH here, nai?
--
Randall Buth, PhD
www.biblicalulpan.org
randallbuth at gmail.com
Biblical Language Center
Learn Easily - Progress Further - Remember for Life
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