[B-Greek] middle voice - still looking for more answers
Mark Lightman
lightmanmark at yahoo.com
Wed Nov 25 14:41:23 EST 2009
Eddie egrapse:
<However, I have not run up against a Middle verb
that I would say is Active in meaning (which is a
periphrasis for it being a 'deponent').>
Hi, again, Eddie:
Romans 4:15 ὁ γαρ νόμος οργὴν κατεργάζεται.
hO GAR NOMOS ORGHN KATERGAZETAI.
“The law produces (God’s) wrath.” Here the
verb seems to be purely active, with no special
emphasis on the subject or a feeling that the
subject participates in the object in any special way.
The law seems a rather disinterested subject.
It is PEOPLE who produce wrath for themselves
from God through the law. Paul could just as
easily have written FEREI or POIEI here.
The Modern Greek has ο νόμος δημιουργε͂ι οργὴν.
None of the English translations suggest anything
other than a pure active, though Amplified has
“results in wrath.”
I accepted that LUMAINOMAI in Acts 8:3
is a bad example not because I am convinced
that there is any special emphasis on the subject
or that it has any more middle force than PORQEW,
which is used elsewhere of what Paul does to the
Church, but because George showed that LUMAINOMAI
had a prehistory where it was middle “Paul was washing
himself off from the filth of the Church.” (not that
I think this is what in means in this passage) I don’t think
KATAERGAZOMAI ever had a middle force. I’m not
a fan of the term deponent, but I think that these
MAI SAI TAI endings must have been at times heard by Greeks
without thinking of anything middle. If there is one
thing we know about Greek, especially Koine,
it is that distinctions are lost.
Mark L
FWSFOROS MARKOS
--- On Mon, 11/23/09, Mark Lightman <lightmanmark at yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Mark Lightman <lightmanmark at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] middle voice - still looking for more answers
To: "greek B-Greek" <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>, "Elizabeth Kline" <kline_dekooning at earthlink.net>, "Eddie Mishoe" <edmishoe at yahoo.com>
Date: Monday, November 23, 2009, 11:53 AM
Eddie egrapse:
<However, I have not run up against a Middle verb
that I would say is Active in meaning (which is a
periphrasis for it being a 'deponent').>
What about Acts 8:3? Σαυλος δε ελυμαινετο την
εκκλησιαν. SAULOS DE ELUMAINETO THN
ELYSIAN. Where is the middle force?
Romans 13:2 οι δε ανθεστηκοτες ἑαυτοις κριμα
λημψονται. hOI DE ANQESTHKOTES hEAUTOIS
KRIMA LHMYONTAI. Does not the fact that
that LAMBANW is made reflexive with hEAUTOIS show
that it is considered active/deponent in the
future?
Mark L
Φωσφορος
FWSFOROS MARKOS
--- On Sat, 11/21/09, Eddie Mishoe <edmishoe at yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Eddie Mishoe <edmishoe at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] middle voice - still looking for more answers
To: "greek B-Greek" <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>, "Elizabeth Kline" <kline_dekooning at earthlink.net>, "Mark Lightman" <lightmanmark at yahoo.com>
Date: Saturday, November 21, 2009, 6:40 PM
Mark, (and Elizabeth, see below)
Thanks for this reply. My contention is that all Middle verbs in the NT are intentionally used to express the nuance of the Middle. I think you can argue that some old Interjections or idiomatic uses could be found to argue against my position. However, I have not run up against a Middle verb that I would say is Active in meaning (which is a periphrasis for it being a 'deponent').
Both the Middle and Active have the Subject acting, so you can see why they are often times difficult to distinguish. But in every instance of the Middle, there is some "self-propulsion" (an old word of Carl's that creates a good image in my mind) involved, the Subject is acting or performing something. I think Carl likes the expression "agentive" (with what we use to call deponents) where the Subject initiates or performs an action.
Elizabeth, are you in agreement with what I've written? If not, please feel free to correct me. I certainly would defer to someone of your scholastic level. Any input you can offer would be greatly appreciated (Carl has to be getting tired of my OFFLIST questions to him!)
Eddie Mishoe
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