[B-Greek] 2COR. 10:10 hOTI hAI EPISTOLAI MEN, FHSIN ...

Elizabeth Kline kline_dekooning at earthlink.net
Sat Nov 28 17:10:20 EST 2009




On Nov 28, 2009, at 12:12 PM, George F Somsel wrote:

> It seems to me that there is a difference between 2 Cor 10.10 and Jn  
> 10.35 in that in Jn 10.35 there is really no speech intro formula.   
> In 2 Cor 10.10 FHSIN is a speech intro formula which when followed  
> by hOTI indicates a quotation.  In Jn 10.35 there is no hOTI though  
> in Jn 10.34 there is a hOTI which functions as the introduction of  
> quoted speech in which EIPEN is included in the quotation which  
> follows immediately upon hOTI.

Yes but, I wasn't making reference to Jn 10:34-35, rather the first  
and second hOTI in verse 36. The first introduces an imbedded speech  
within a speech. The second hOTI which precedes the speech verb isn't  
IMO used to mark speech at all, word order again. It is probably best  
thought of as a logical connector.

>   In 2 Cor 10.10 FHSIN is a speech intro formula which when followed  
> by hOTI indicates a quotation. [...] I would agree that the  
> structure of 2 Cor 10.10 is somewhat unusual in that the  
> introductory formula FHSIN is delayed and placed in the middle of  
> the quotation, but that doesn't change its function.  You will find  
> the same in English literature -- "'I am', he said, '...'" rather  
> than "He said, 'I am ...'"


I will let you and Iver argue about that :-)



> Donald,
>
> My question was fuzzy, actually several questions. I can illustrate
> with a citation from GspJn
>
> John 10:35 εἰ ἐκείνους εἶπεν θεοὺς πρὸς
> οὓς ὁ λόγος τοῦ θεοῦ ἐγένετο, καὶ
> οὐ δύναται λυθῆναι ἡ γραφή,  36 ὃν ὁ
> πατὴρ ἡγίασεν καὶ ἀπέστειλεν εἰς
> τὸν κόσμον ὑμεῖς λέγετε ὅτι
> βλασφημεῖς, ὅτι εἶπον· υἱὸς τοῦ
> θεοῦ εἰμι;
> .
>
> JOHN 10:35 EI EKEINOUS EIPEN QEOUS PROS hOUS hO LOGOS TOU QEOU
> EGENETO, KAI OU DUNATAI LUQHNAI hH GRAFH, 36 hON hO PATHR hHGIASEN KAI
> APESTEILEN EIS TON KOSMON hUMEIS LEGETE hOTI BLASFHMEIS, hOTI EIPON·
> hUIOS TOU QEOU EIMI;
> .
> Observe how hOTI functions in hUMEIS LEGETE hOTI BLASFHMEIS and
> compare it to hOTI in  hOTI EIPON· hUIOS TOU QEOU EIMI. My initial
> question had to do with word order. Is it possible for hOTI to
> introduce speech  when the verb of speaking follows hOTI either
> immediately or later? In Jn 10:36 I might read the second hOTI as
> introducing the content of their accusation against Jesus, not the
> speech of Jesus. It could also be understood as logical hOTI --
> because --  EIPON· hUIOS TOU QEOU EIMI.
>


Elizabeth Kline



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