[B-Greek] 1Co11:17 TOUTO DE PARAGGELLWN

Iver Larsen iver_larsen at sil.org
Fri Sep 4 09:12:02 EDT 2009


----- Original Message ----- 
From: Steven Cox
To: BG ; Iver Larsen
Sent: 4. september 2009 14:28
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] 1Co11:17 TOUTO DE PARAGGELLWN

Iver,
Apologies, mails crossed. Thanks for that survey. I think I may be incorrect in
what I just said about there not being other TOUTO DE + present participle, more
likely I just haven't searched properly.
-------------------------
IL: I couldn't find any in the NT or LXX.
----------------------
You put the survey of versions in quotation marks. Is that part of one of SIL's
resources?
---------------------
IL: Yes, it is a brief summary of commentators, since most of us do not have
easy access to a large library. ALf stands for "Alford, Henry. The Greek
Testament. Vol. 2. 1865. Reprint. Chicago: Moody, 1968." I am not going to 
defend his views.
--------------------
PS - I wonder would the option TOUTO DE PARAGGELLONTAS have been available to
Paul if he wanted to point backwards to what he had just said?
-----------------------
IL: I don't think it is simply a matter of the tense used, but rather the whole
context.

Iver Larsen

--- On Thu, 3/9/09, Iver Larsen <iver_larsen at sil.org> wrote:


From: Iver Larsen <iver_larsen at sil.org>
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] 1Co11:17 TOUTO DE PARAGGELLWN
To: "Steven Cox" <stevencox_backonbgreek at yahoo.co.uk>, "BG"
<b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Date: Thursday, 3 September, 2009, 8:41 PM


----- Original Message ----- From: "Steven Cox"
<stevencox_backonbgreek at yahoo.co.uk>
To: <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: 3. september 2009 20:23
Subject: [B-Greek] 1Co11:17 TOUTO DE PARAGGELLWN



I must apologize in advance because I'm sure I'm about to ask a redundant
question. I've been up a ladder painting the eaves all afternoon and my brain
isn't firing on all four cylinders.

1Co11:2 EPAINW DE UMAS OTI PANTA MOU MEMNHSQE...

1Co11:17 TOUTO DE PARAGGELLWN OUK EPAINW OTI OUK EIS TO KREISSON ALLA EIS TO
HSSON SUNERCESQE

I'd read TOUTO DE PARAGGELLWN as meaning "now in this [new] subject I don't
praise you.... And I seem to be supported by the brackets in the Elberfelder "In
dem ich aber dieses (d. h. das was folgt) vorschreibe.." = (i.e. that which
follows)

But I've just bumped into p.155 of Leon Morris' 1Corinthians where he is
somewhat assertive that : "'commanding you this'...would naturally refer to the
preceding (cf. NEB in 'giving these injunctions')"
------------------------

It may be of interest to compare with other initial TOUTO DE's in the letter:

1 Co 7:6 TOUTO DE LEGW...
1 Co 7:29 TOUTO DE FHMI
1 Co 7:35 TOUTO DE ... LEGW
1 Co 11:17 TOUTO DE PARAGGELLW OUK EPAINW
1 Co 15:50 TOUTO DE FHMI

Of these 5, the TOUTO in numbers 1 and 3 IMO refer to the preceding context,
while the other 3 refer to the following context. This is also how most English
versions have taken it - against Morris.

Commentators are more evenly divided than the translations:

"1. It refers to what follows [AB, EGT, MNTC, NIC2, NTC, TH, Vn; CEV, ISV, NAB,
NET, NIV, NLT, NRSV, TEV]. This verse constitutes a complete break with the
preceding section. There Paul praised them (11:2). Here he does not praise them.
Also the second half of the verse gives the content of why he does not praise
them. The direction is forward not back [NTC].
2. It refers to what precedes [Alf, Ed, Gdt, HNTC, ICC, Lns, My, NIC, Rb, TNTC;
NJB, REB, TNT]. TOUTO 'this' refers to the warning in 11:16 and would mean
'Giving you this warning I do not praise you (about the following)' [Gdt]. If
TOUTO refers to what follows, some definite command should follow it [Alf]. It
refers not to 11:16 as there is no command there, but to 11:2-16 [NIC]."

Iver Larsen




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