[B-Greek] Romans 8:3
Carl Conrad
cwconrad2 at mac.com
Sat Sep 5 06:04:12 EDT 2009
On Sep 5, 2009, at 12:10 AM, Leonard Jayawardena wrote:
>
>
>
> I raise two issues in my post. First, the meaning of ADUNATOS in
> Romans 8:3, whether it is "weak," as in Acts 14:8 and Romans 15:1,
> or "impossible," as in Matthew 19:26. That is, whether TO ADUNATON
> TOU NOMOU means "the weakness of the law" or "the impossibility of
> the law." I think Galatians 3:21 (EI GAR EDOQH NOMOS hO DUNAMENOS
> ZWOPOIHSAIl), which deals with the same point, and Romans 15:1
> support the meaning "weak" or "incapable."
>
> Since I have already decided that ADUNATON in Romans 8:3 means
> "weak" or "incapable," the meaning it has in the alternative
> translation recently discussed, the following question is the one I
> am most interested in getting an answer to: If approach the
> translation of Romans 8:3 certain that TO ADUNATON TOU NOMOU means
> "the weakness (or incapability) of the law," then are we shut up to
> the alternative translation, i.e., "In regard to the impotence of
> the law in that it was weak through the flesh, God having sent his
> own son ... judged sin in the flesh"? Or is there another way to
> translate this verse with the meaning "weak" or incapable"?
>
> (I think that when Paul says, "In regard to the impotence of the law
> in that it was weak through the flesh," he means something like
> this: "In regard to the impotence of the law--I mean the law was
> powerless to make man righteous because of the weakness of the
> flesh." To put it another way, the flesh makes man too weak to
> fulfill what Paul callS TO DIKAIWMA TOU NOMOU [v. 4], which in turns
> makes the law powerless [by itself] to make man righteous.)
>
> On the other hand, if we assign the meaning "impossible" to
> ADUNATON, the translation seems to require the form "For what the
> law could not do in that ..., God did, sending his own son ...." It
> seems impossible to take take TO ADUNATON TOU NOMOU as an accusative
> of general reference when the meaning of this word is "impossible."
> Am I right on this?
I don't think so. For one thing, I think you're somewhat hung up over
the matter of how we TRANSLATE this, when the question is rather, how
we understand the grammatical construction of TO ADUNATON TOU NOMOU.
TOU NOMOU need not be understood as a "possessive" genitive, as if the
only sense we could attach to the phrase might be "the impossible
thing belonging to the law." I think the genitive need do no more than
point to an association of NOMOS with TO ADUNATON. I've often
heretofore noted that an adnominal genitive could be conveyed in
English with a hyphenation of the two words: "the law-impossibility"
-- but although one might get away with that in a slangy type of
English expression, a more natural way of conveying the sense of the
Greek would be (if we understand ADUNATON as "impossible"): "What's
impossible about the Law" or "The impossible thing with the Law." I
don't see any reason at all why understanding the phrase, TO ADUNATON
TOU NOMOU, as an accusative of respect should be problematic.
Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
>
>> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Romans 8:3
>> From: cwconrad2 at mac.com
>> Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2009 07:58:38 -0400
>> CC: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
>> To: leonardj at live.com
>>
>> Well, the focus of Leonard's examinations has been, in effect, on
>> whether ADUNATON in Rom 8:3 should be understood as active in sense,
>> "incapable (to perform)" or as passive, "impossible/undoable." I
>> would
>> agree that the active sense seems much more likely here. On the other
>> hand, doesn't it seem rather awkward to speak of the ASQENEIA and
>> ADUNATON of the NOMOS when the ASQENEIA and powerlessness are
>> attributed to the SARX? I guess, however, that this is right; it's
>> comparable to saying, "I couldn't do anything with him; he was a
>> raging lunatic."
>>
>> Carl W. Conrad
>> Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
>>
>> On Sep 4, 2009, at 1:26 AM, Leonard Jayawardena wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> In the earlier post, I asked: "Am I right in thinking that the usual
>>> translation of Romans 8:3 goes with the sense "impossible" and the
>>> alternative translation (where TO ADUNATON is treated as an
>>> "accusative of general reference") goes with the sense
>>> "incapable" or "weak"?"
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> To put it another way, Is it correct to say that a translation of
>>> the type "For what the law could not do in that ..., God did..." is
>>> required when the meaning "possible" is assigned to the word
>>> ADUNATOS and the alternative translation discussed under the recent
>>> thread on the subject verse ("For in regard to the inability/
>>> impotence of the law...) is required when the meaning "weak" or
>>> "incapable" is assigned to that word? I can't think of a translation
>>> of the type "For what the law could not do in that ..., God did ..."
>>> when the meaning of ADUNATOS is "weak" of "incapable."
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> If I am correct, doesn't the meaning you assign to this word decide
>>> what form the translation should take? If I understood the
>>> discussion correctly, the question was raised as to how one decides
>>> between the two possibilities of translation. The meaning of the
>>> word ADUNATOS could be the deciding factor. In Galatians 3:21 Paul
>>> writes, EI GAR EDOQH NOMOS hO DUNAMENOS ZWOPOIHSAI, ONTWS EK NOMOU
>>> AN HN hH DIKAIOSUNH. Here the participle DUNAMENOS means "capable"
>>> or "having the strength," which sense
>>> corresponds in an opposite way to the sense TO ADUNATON bears in
>>> Romans 8:3 in the alternative translation. Since in both passages
>>> Paul deals with the impotence of the law by itself to bring about
>>> righteousness in man, this makes it likely that he used ADUNATOS in
>>> Romans 8:3 in a similar sense, i.e., "weak" or "incapable," rather
>>> than in the sense of "possible."
>>>
>>>
>>> I also mentioned that it might be instructive to compare the phrase
>>> TA ASQENHMATA TWN ADUNATWN in Romans 15:1 with TO GAR ADUNATON TOU
>>> NOMOU EN hW HSQENEI DIA THS SARKOS in Romans 8:3. We have ASQENHMATA
>>> and ADUNATWN in 15:1 and
>>> ADUNATON and HSQENEI in 8:3, which collocations again seem to point
>>> to both ADUNATON and ADUNATWN having the same basic sense.
>>>
>>> Leonard Jayawardena
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