[B-Greek] The use of GAR in Mark 9:49

Carl Conrad cwconrad2 at mac.com
Thu Sep 10 16:53:01 EDT 2009


On Sep 10, 2009, at 3:31 PM, Samuel Cripps wrote:

> Thanks, Carl.  To give you a better idea as to where my friend might  
> be coming from, consider something else he wrote:
>
> "John 4:7-8
>
> There came a woman of Samaria to draw water. Jesus said to her,  
> 'Give Me a drink.'
> For His disciples had gone away into the city to buy food.
>
> Do you see or understand a contrast here.
>
> The contrast is made between what would have happened if the  
> Disciples were there verses if they weren't there. 'Gar' performed  
> that contrast."

I still don't see anything that could properly be called a "contrast."  
The GAR in this instance indicates the reason for his asking the woman  
for a drink. One may INFER from the GAR clause that he might not have  
requested the water from the woman had he not been left alone by his  
disciples, but to say that this involves a "contrast" seems an  
extraordinary description of the fu;nction performed by the particle  
GAR in this instance. I think too that the GAR of John 4:8 is  
different in function from the GAR of Mark 9:49. Again I would urge  
consultation of the full entry on GAR in BDAG.

Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)

> --- On Thu, 9/10/09, Carl Conrad <cwconrad2 at mac.com> wrote:
>
>
> From: Carl Conrad <cwconrad2 at mac.com>
> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] The use of GAR in Mark 9:49
> To: "Samuel Cripps" <crippssamuel at yahoo.com>
> Cc: B-Greek at lists.ibiblio.org
> Date: Thursday, September 10, 2009, 7:02 PM
>
>
>
> On Sep 10, 2009, at 1:03 PM, Samuel Cripps wrote:
>
>>
>> B-Greekers,
>>
>> During a recent discussion between myself and a friend who is  
>> trained in Biblical Greek, my friend claimed, "GAR is used to give  
>> reason and attempts to explain that which precedes it.If there is  
>> an idea after it that is connected to it, it must be understood as  
>> a contrast."  Concerning the use of GAR in Mark 9:49, my friend  
>> wrote, "Verse 49-50 through the use of gar shows a contrast in  
>> those verses. Verse 50 speaks of the disciplined life while verse  
>> 49 reaches back in time namely verse 48 and actually back even  
>> further. 'Every' must be understood as meaning 'all' but the real  
>> understanding must be in the idea that we read the text as a  
>> contrast that is to say that everyone is salted in one manner or  
>> another.That contrast is clearly defined by the use of the  
>> conjunction "gar".
>>
>> So if I were to translate this text this is what it would say in a  
>> commentary form.
>>
>> Every man must go through one fire or another (salted with fire)  
>> for one it is the fire of hell and for another it is the fire of  
>> self discipline of faith."
>>
>> Is this correct?  Does GAR function in this manner?
>
> It is useful to list-members to cite the text you're asking about:
> Mark 9:49     Πᾶς γὰρ πυρὶ ἁλισθήσεται.
> [PAS GAR PURI hALISQHSETAI.]
>
> For my part, I can't imagine where the understanding of the function  
> of GAR offered by your friend -- that some sort of contrast is  
> implied by it -- comes from. I would suggest a careful reading of  
> the lengthy entry on GAR in BDAG.
> As for Mark 9:49, while one may well imagine that hALISQHNAI will  
> mean different tests for different people, I don't really see that a  
> distinct antithesis between two alternatives is suggested, certainly  
> not by GAR. I would sooner understand the GAR in this verse as  
> indicating a summary statement: "So, you see, everyone is going to  
> undergo a fire-testing." I don't think it's appropriate to offer (in  
> translation) some extrapolated notion of what forms the fire-testing  
> may take.




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