[B-Greek] EN vs. EIS in John 16:13a - translation question

Elizabeth Kline kline_dekooning at earthlink.net
Mon Sep 21 13:00:26 EDT 2009


On Sep 21, 2009, at 7:00 AM, Carl Conrad wrote:

> I think that the translators are presenting the proper meaning in
> terms of Koine usage rather than attempting to preserve an earlier
> distinction between a strictly locative sense of EN or strictly
> directional sense of EIS.

A distiction that wasn't always maintianed in earlier Greek. Cooper  
cites a long list of both prose and poetic examples of EN + Dat. used  
with verbs of moiton. He also cites from Pind. examples of EN + acc.  
used where we would expect EIS + acc..

For example EN POIMNAIS PITNWN S.Aj.184. This looks more like  
substituion for EPI + gen, acc, or dat. ? than it does a substitution  
for EIS + acc..
LS (interm.)
	6. when  ἐν is used with Verbs of motion, where we use the Prep.  
into,  the construction is called pregnant,   πίπτειν ἐν  
κονίῃσι to fall [to  the dust and lie] in  it;  οἶνον  
ἔχευεν ἐν δέπαϊ Od., etc.

LSJ

  in a pregnant construction with Verbs of motion, into; implying both  
motion to and subsequent position in a place, ἐν κονίῃσι  
χαμαὶ πέσεν fell [to the dust and lay] in it, Il.4.482,  
etc.; βάλον ἐν κονίῃσι 5.588; νηῒ δ' ἐνὶ  
πρύμνῃ ἔναρα θῆκ' 10.570; ἐν χερσὶ  
τιθέναι 1.441, etc.; ἐν χερσὶ βαλεῖν 5.574;  
ἐν στήθεσσι μένος βαλεῖν ib.513; ἐν  
Τρωσὶν ὄρουσαν 16.258; ἐν χερσὶ πεσέειν  
6.81; λέων ἐν βουσὶ θορών 5.161; ἐν δ'  
οἶνον ἔχευεν ἐν δέπαϊ χρυσέῳ Od.20.261;  
ἐν τεύχεσσιν ἔδυνον Il.23.131: in Trag. and Att.,  
ἐν ποίμναις πίτνων S.Aj.184 (lyr.), cf. 374 (lyr.);  
ἐν χωρίῳ ἐμπεπτωκώς Th.7.87; ἡ ἐν τῷ  
Σπειραίῳ τῶν νεῶν καταφυγή Id.8.11; ἐν  
τόπῳ καταπεφευγέναι Pl.Sph.260c; ἐν ᾅδου  
διαπορευθείς Id.Lg.905b; ῥιπτοῦντες σφᾶς  
ἐν τῇ θαλάσσῃ Arr.An.1.19.4; later, with Verbs of coming  
and going, διαβάντες ἐν τῇ Σάμῳ Paus.7.4.3, cf. LXX  
To.5.5, Arr.Epict.1.11.32, etc.: τὸν ἐν Σικελίᾳ  
πλοῦν is f.l. in Lys. 19.43 codd.

in a pregnant construction with Verbs of motion, into; implying both  
motion to and subsequent position in a place, EN KONIHiSI CAMAI PESEN  
fell [to the dust and lay] in it, Il.4.482, etc.; BALON EN KONIHiSI  
5.588; NHI+ D' ENI PRUMNHi ENARA QHK' 10.570; EN CERSI TIQENAI 1.441,  
etc.; EN CERSI BALEIN 5.574; EN STHQESSI MENOS BALEIN ib.513; EN  
TRWSIN OROUSAN 16.258; EN CERSI PESEEIN 6.81; LEWN EN BOUSI QORWN  
5.161; EN D' OINON ECEUEN EN DEPAI+ CRUSEWi Od.20.261; EN TEUCESSIN  
EDUNON Il.23.131: in Trag. and Att., EN POIMNAIS PITNWN S.Aj.184  
(lyr.), cf. 374 (lyr.); EN CWRIWi EMPEPTWKWS Th.7.87; hH EN TWi  
SPEIRAIWi TWN NEWN KATAFUGH Id.8.11; EN TOPWi KATAPEFEUGENAI Pl.Sph. 
260c; EN hAiDOU DIAPOREUQEIS Id.Lg.905b; hRIPTOUNTES SFAS EN THi  
QALASSHi Arr.An.1.19.4; later, with Verbs of coming and going,  
DIABANTES EN THi SAMWi Paus.7.4.3, cf. LXX To.5.5, Arr.Epict.1.11.32,  
etc.: TON EN SIKELIAi PLOUN is f.l. in Lys. 19.43 codd.



Elizabeth Kline







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