[B-Greek] EN vs. EIS in John 16:13a - translation question
Carl Conrad
cwconrad2 at mac.com
Mon Sep 21 15:23:23 EDT 2009
On Sep 21, 2009, at 1:00 PM, Elizabeth Kline wrote:
>
> On Sep 21, 2009, at 7:00 AM, Carl Conrad wrote:
>
>> I think that the translators are presenting the proper meaning in
>> terms of Koine usage rather than attempting to preserve an earlier
>> distinction between a strictly locative sense of EN or strictly
>> directional sense of EIS.
>
> A distiction that wasn't always maintianed in earlier Greek. Cooper
> cites a long list of both prose and poetic examples of EN + Dat. used
> with verbs of moiton. He also cites from Pind. examples of EN + acc.
> used where we would expect EIS + acc..
A perhaps not irrelevant fact that many are not aware of (have I got
enough negative particles in there?) is that EIS is in fact EN with
the directional suffix -S (N between a vowel and -S evanesced early,
and the E becomes EI by compensatory lengthening). So also PROS is in
fact PRO with the same directional suffix -S.
>
> For example EN POIMNAIS PITNWN S.Aj.184. This looks more like
> substituion for EPI + gen, acc, or dat. ? than it does a substitution
> for EIS + acc..
> LS (interm.)
> 6. when ἐν is used with Verbs of motion, where we use the Prep.
> into, the construction is called pregnant, πίπτειν ἐν
> κονίῃσι to fall [to the dust and lie] in it; οἶνον
> ἔχευεν ἐν δέπαϊ Od., etc.
>
> LSJ
>
> in a pregnant construction with Verbs of motion, into; implying both
> motion to and subsequent position in a place, ἐν κονίῃσι
> χαμαὶ πέσεν fell [to the dust and lay] in it, Il.4.482,
> etc.; βάλον ἐν κονίῃσι 5.588; νηῒ δ' ἐνὶ
> πρύμνῃ ἔναρα θῆκ' 10.570; ἐν χερσὶ
> τιθέναι 1.441, etc.; ἐν χερσὶ βαλεῖν 5.574;
> ἐν στήθεσσι μένος βαλεῖν ib.513; ἐν
> Τρωσὶν ὄρουσαν 16.258; ἐν χερσὶ πεσέειν
> 6.81; λέων ἐν βουσὶ θορών 5.161; ἐν δ'
> οἶνον ἔχευεν ἐν δέπαϊ χρυσέῳ Od.20.261;
> ἐν τεύχεσσιν ἔδυνον Il.23.131: in Trag. and Att.,
> ἐν ποίμναις πίτνων S.Aj.184 (lyr.), cf. 374 (lyr.);
> ἐν χωρίῳ ἐμπεπτωκώς Th.7.87; ἡ ἐν τῷ
> Σπειραίῳ τῶν νεῶν καταφυγή Id.8.11; ἐν
> τόπῳ καταπεφευγέναι Pl.Sph.260c; ἐν ᾅδου
> διαπορευθείς Id.Lg.905b; ῥιπτοῦντες σφᾶς
> ἐν τῇ θαλάσσῃ Arr.An.1.19.4; later, with Verbs of coming
> and going, διαβάντες ἐν τῇ Σάμῳ Paus.7.4.3, cf.
> LXX
> To.5.5, Arr.Epict.1.11.32, etc.: τὸν ἐν Σικελίᾳ
> πλοῦν is f.l. in Lys. 19.43 codd.
>
> in a pregnant construction with Verbs of motion, into; implying both
> motion to and subsequent position in a place, EN KONIHiSI CAMAI PESEN
> fell [to the dust and lay] in it, Il.4.482, etc.; BALON EN KONIHiSI
> 5.588; NHI+ D' ENI PRUMNHi ENARA QHK' 10.570; EN CERSI TIQENAI 1.441,
> etc.; EN CERSI BALEIN 5.574; EN STHQESSI MENOS BALEIN ib.513; EN
> TRWSIN OROUSAN 16.258; EN CERSI PESEEIN 6.81; LEWN EN BOUSI QORWN
> 5.161; EN D' OINON ECEUEN EN DEPAI+ CRUSEWi Od.20.261; EN TEUCESSIN
> EDUNON Il.23.131: in Trag. and Att., EN POIMNAIS PITNWN S.Aj.184
> (lyr.), cf. 374 (lyr.); EN CWRIWi EMPEPTWKWS Th.7.87; hH EN TWi
> SPEIRAIWi TWN NEWN KATAFUGH Id.8.11; EN TOPWi KATAPEFEUGENAI Pl.Sph.
> 260c; EN hAiDOU DIAPOREUQEIS Id.Lg.905b; hRIPTOUNTES SFAS EN THi
> QALASSHi Arr.An.1.19.4; later, with Verbs of coming and going,
> DIABANTES EN THi SAMWi Paus.7.4.3, cf. LXX To.5.5, Arr.Epict.1.11.32,
> etc.: TON EN SIKELIAi PLOUN is f.l. in Lys. 19.43 codd.
>
>
>
> Elizabeth Kline
>
>
>
>
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