[B-Greek] Chronology of Ga 2:11-21 (was DOKEIN in Gal 2:6-10) OFFLIST, PLEASE
Carl Conrad
cwconrad2 at mac.com
Wed Feb 3 04:07:14 EST 2010
On Feb 3, 2010, at 2:31 AM, Donald Cobb wrote:
>
> Hello Iver,
>
> A few days ago you wrote this:
>
> < A side comment that has nothing to do with Greek, but a lot to do with hortatory discourse: There is nothing in the text that suggests that the incident in Gal 2:11-21 happened after the events of Gal 2:1-10, but there is much that suggest that it happened before. >
>
> Aside from the DE, which can be taken either way, what exactly is there in the text of Gal 2:11-21 that would lead the reader to conclude that Paul is writing about a situation previous to Ga 2:1-10? I don't want to open a debate on B-Greek if the question hinges only on hermeneutical issues (i.e., situating the events Pauls speaks of in Galatians in connection with the book of Acts), and if that's the case an off-list response would no doubt be more appropriate. But I am curious as to how you come to that conclusion.
THIS DISCUSSION NEEDS TO BE OFFLIST, SINCE, AS YOU NOTE, IT IS A HERMENEUTICAL ISSUE.
Carl W. Conrad
Co-Chair, B-Greek List
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
> Iver Larsen a écrit :
>> Just a couple of comments.
>>
>> I agree that hOI DOKOUNTES refers to the respected and recognized
>> leaders/pillars of the Jerusalem church, and it is likely that it refers
>> specifically to the three apostles: James, Peter and John.
>>
>> The perceived negative slant may come from the English "seemed to be leaders" as
>> in NIV. This is a mistake carried over more or less from the KJV and the RSV,
>> but a mistake that has been corrected in the TNIV: "those esteemed as leaders"
>> (2:2) , NIV: "As for those who seemed to be important" (2:6), TNIV: "As for
>> those who were held in high esteem". NIV: "those reputed to be pillars" (2:9),
>> TNIV: "those esteemed as pillars".
>>
>> Paul does comment on the fact that revelation from God takes precedence over
>> estimation by people, but he also recognizes that for many people the opinion of
>> recognized leaders and especially apostles was very important.
>>
>> A side comment that has nothing to do with Greek, but a lot to do with hortatory
>> discourse: There is nothing in the text that suggests that the incident in Gal
>> 2:11-21 happened after the events of Gal 2:1-10, but there is much that suggest
>> that it happened before. Gal 2:11-21 prepares the way for chapter 3 and is not
>> linked time wise to 2:1-10. The DE in v. 11 does not mean "but", rather it
>> introduces a new paragraph. NIV and TNIV at least got that right. This is an
>> example where Western assumptions of chronology lead to dubious conclusions. I
>> only mention this because Carl stated that assumption in passing.
>>
>> Iver Larsen
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