[B-Greek] Ambiguity

George F Somsel gfsomsel at yahoo.com
Sat Feb 6 12:28:36 EST 2010


I think the usual German term is Wiedergeburt.

The term "born again" dates at least to the time of John Wycliffe who translated (from the Latin) rendered Jn 3.1-7 as

1 And there was a man of the Farisees, Nychodeme bi name, a prince of the Jewis.
2 And he cam to Jhesu bi niyt, and seide to hym, Rabi, we witen, that thou art comun fro God maister; for no man may do these signes, that thou doist, but God be with hym.
3 Jhesus answerde, and seide to hym, Treuli, treuli, Y seie to thee, but a man be borun ayen, he may not se the kyngdom of God.
4 Nychodeme seide to hym, Hou may a man be borun, whanne he is eeld? whether he may entre ayen in to his modris wombe, and be borun ayen?
5 Jhesus answeride, Treuli, treuli, Y seie to thee, but a man be borun ayen of watir, and of the Hooli Goost, he may not entre in to the kyngdom of God.
6 `That that is borun of the fleisch, is fleisch; and `that that is borun of spirit, is spirit.
7 Wondre thou not, for Y seide to thee, It bihoueth you to be borun ayen.

http://wesley.nnu.edu/biblical_studies/wycliffe/Joh.txt

The Latin upon which his translation was based had 

     1 Erat autem homo ex pharisæis, Nicodemus nomine, princeps Judæorum. 2 Hic venit ad Jesum nocte, et dixit ei : Rabbi, scimus quia a Deo venisti magister, nemo enim potest hæc signa facere, quæ tu facis, nisi fuerit Deus cum eo. 3 Respondit Jesus, et dixit ei : Amen, amen dico tibi, nisi quis renatus fuerit denuo, non potest videre regnum Dei. 4 Dicit ad eum Nicodemus : Quomodo potest homo nasci, cum sit senex ? numquid potest in ventrem matris suæ iterato introire et renasci ? 5 Respondit Jesus : Amen, amen dico tibi, nisi quis renatus fuerit ex aqua, et Spiritu Sancto, non potest introire in regnum Dei. 6 Quod natum est ex carne, caro est : et quod natum est ex spiritu, spiritus est. 7 Non mireris quia dixi tibi : oportet vos nasci denuo. 
 
Biblia Sacra juxta Vulgatam Clementinam. 2005 (Ed. electronica) (Jn 3:1-7). Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.
 
Renatus is "to be born again, to grow, spring up again" so the meaning of "born again" seems to go back to Jerome in the Vulgate.

 george
gfsomsel 


… search for truth, hear truth, 
learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth, 
defend the truth till death.


- Jan Hus
_________ 



----- Original Message ----
From: "nebarry at verizon.net" <nebarry at verizon.net>
To: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
Sent: Sat, February 6, 2010 9:20:22 AM
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Ambiguity



Original Message:
-----------------
From: Nikolaos Adamou nikolaos.adamou at hotmail.com
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 10:49:30 -0500
To: gfsomsel at yahoo.com, drdwilkins at verizon.net, cwconrad2 at mac.com, b-
greek at lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Ambiguity



>>3. "Born again" is a term used by protestants today.  Was a similar term
from 
the beginning of protestantism, from Luther and after? Do we have a similar 
expression in German? When did this expression start to be used in
English?<<

Luther has  "von neuem geboren werde," which sound to me like "born again,"
but 
my German is rust to dust.

Barry




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