[B-Greek] Ambiguity

Vasile STANCU stancu at mail.dnttm.ro
Sun Feb 7 11:19:33 EST 2010


Thanks for the explanations; however, unless all logical possibilities are exhausted, I feel I should make some further comments.

I still believe that the 'ambiguity' here is a little bit artificial. I would compare this situation with any other situation where something suddenly becomes possible, in spite of all previous solid evidence that there could be no such case.

Say, for instance, that one becomes aware that telephone communication is just made reality and one could hear the voice of another even though the two are thousands of miles away from each other. And one says,

- In two weeks time, I am supposed to be in America, but as soon as I arrive there, I can arrange that you can hear my voice, even though you are in Paris.
- How can that be? You mean, would you be suddenly able to shout so loud that I can hear you over so many miles?
- No, I am telling you the truth: nobody in Paris can hear my voice while I am in America unless he has access to a public telephone, etc...

The fact that the birth Jesus refers to must be one the occurs AGAIN, none of us denies, I believe. That it is FROM ABOVE, no doubt, again. What Nicodemos does not understand is HOW such a birth can occur. And Jesus explains to him that it is something different from what everybody commonly understood by that, and he goes into all necessary details explaining that. If there was no 'again' connotaion to the word, and the only sense it had was 'from above', the reaction of Necodemos would have been different. In the story I imagined above, if the first individual said, '... you can hear my voice, even though you are in Paris, because a new technology has been just invented and - don't interrupt me - I am explaining it tou you right away', the other one would not react based on the only possibility he was aquainted with, i.e., hearing directly by one's ears; he would probably ask that the new technology be explained to him.

Vasile


-----Original Message-----
From: George F Somsel [mailto:gfsomsel at yahoo.com] 
Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 5:35 PM
To: Vasile STANCU; b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Ambiguity

It can't be understood in the same way in Jn 3 as in Lk 1 since in Jn 3 it is made clear by Jesus' further comments in the passage that he does not mean "again."  γεννηθῆναι ἄνωθεν GENNHQHNAI ANWQEN is followed immediately by a statement explicating it 
 τὸ πνεῦμα ὅπου θέλει πνεῖ καὶ τὴν φωνὴν αὐτοῦ ἀκούεις, ἀλλʼ οὐκ οἶδας πόθεν ἔρχεται καὶ ποῦ ὑπάγει• οὕτως ἐστὶν πᾶς ὁ γεγεννημένος ἐκ τοῦ πνεύματος. 
TO PNEUMA hOPOU QELEI PNEI KAI THN FWNHN AUTOU AKOUEIS, ALL' OUK OIDAS POQEN ERXETAI KAI POU hUPAGEI; hOUTWS ESTING PAS hO GEGENNHMENOS EK TOU PNEUMATOS.
 
The "new birth" [since it is frequently called such] is thus defined as being "born of the Spirit" or "from above."

 george
gfsomsel 


… search for truth, hear truth, 
learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth, 
defend the truth till death.


- Jan Hus
_________ 



----- Original Message ----
From: Vasile STANCU <stancu at mail.dnttm.ro>
To: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
Sent: Sun, February 7, 2010 1:58:12 AM
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Ambiguity

Excuse me, but what does Luke mean when he says (Lk 1:3), using the word ἄνωθεν ANWQEN, 

ἔδοξε κἀμοὶ παρηκολουθηκότι ἄνωθεν πᾶσιν ἀκριβῶς καθεξῆς σοι γράψαι, κράτιστε 
Θεόφιλε, 

EDOCE KAMOI PARHKOLOUQHKOTI ANWQEN AKRIBWS KAQEXHS SOI GAYAI, KRATISTE QEOFILE 

What is the meaning of this word in this context, as associated with γράψαι 
GRAYAI? And why does it seem to be so difficult to apply it the same way when 
associated with γεννηθῆναι GENNHQHNAI? 

Vasile Stancu
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