[B-Greek] hO KURIOS TO PNEUMA - subject or predicate?
Blue Meeksbay
bluemeeksbay at yahoo.com
Wed Feb 17 14:13:40 EST 2010
Fair enough…I did not have the Greek text and you are right, who knows if the English was translated accurately (which you suggest might not have). And even if it was, as there is in Scripture, there could be honest disagreements of what the Greek of Chrysostom is saying.
As far as the others, this is all I have of Theodoret, but again, I am at a disadvantage since I do not have the Greek text and I do not have the full context. Nevertheless, this is what he said:
“Paul shows here that the Spirit and God are equal. Moses turned his eyes toward God; we turn our eyes toward the Holy Spirit.” Commentary on the Second Epistle to the Corinthians 305-6
And Theodore of Mopsuestia said (I do not have the Greek or the full context in this either, but the English says):
“If Paul had wanted to say that the Lord is a spirit, he would have left the article the out. Compare John, where speaking to the Samaritan woman, Jesus says that God is a spirit, meaning that he does not have a body. But in this case Paul puts the article in, which proves that he is not saying that the Lord is a spirit but rather that the Spirit is the Lord.” PAULINE COMMENTARY FROM THE GREEK CHURCH
(I realize in Greek the last phrase, more than likely, reads as our text, so this quote in English is just an interpretation. But what would be interesting is if in the Greek he wrote it TO PNEUMA ESTIN hO KURIOS. If that is the case, then, indeed, more than likely, he understood PNEUMA as the subject, especially because of the examples below. I wish I had the Greek text.)
Below is a list of those verses I found that had a similar construction using ESTIN. What is interesting I could not find one example that had the exact same construction of subject - predicate – verb. The most common structure was, subject – verb – predicate, so I do not know if the structure of the verse itself can help us, unless there are examples from extra-biblical sources.
hO LUCNOS TOU SWMATOS ESTIN hO OFQALMOS. EAN OUN Hi hO OFQALMOS SOU hAPLOUS, hOLON TO SWMA SOU FWTEINON ESTAI·
Mt 6:22
Subject verb predicate – Most translations
Predicate verb subject – ESV, NIV
__________________
O DE AGROS ESTIN hO KOSMOS, TO DE KALON SPERMA hOUTOI EISIN hOI hUIOI THS BASILEIAS· TA DE ZIZANIA EISIN hOI hUIOI TOU PONHROU
Mt 13:38
Subject verb predicate
________________
ESTIN DE AUTH hH PARABOLH· hO SPOROS ESTIN hO LOGOS TOU QEOU
Lu 8:11
Subject verb predicate
__________________
AGAPHTOI, OUK ENTOLHN KAINHN GRAFW hUMIN ALL' ENTOLHN PALAIAN hHN EICETE AP' ARCHS· hH ENTOLH hH PALAIA ESTIN hO LOGOS hON HKOUSATE 1Jo 2:7
Subject verb predicate
________________________
PAS hO POIWN THN hAMARTIAN KAI THN ANOMIAN POIEI, KAI hH hAMARTIA ESTIN hH ANOMIA 1Jo 3:4
Subject verb predicate/Predicate verb subject?
_______________________
hO MH AGAPWN OUK EGNW TON QEON, hOTI hO QEOS AGAPH ESTIN
1Jo 4:8
Subject – anarthrous predicate – verb
_______________________
hOUTOS ESTIN hO ELQWN DI' hUDATOS KAI hAIMATOS, IHSOUS CRISTOS, OUK EN TWi hUDATI MONON ALL' EN TWi hUDATI KAI EN TWi hAIMATI· KAI TO PNEUMA ESTIN TO MARTUROUN, hOTI TO PNEUMA ESTIN hH ALHQEIA 1Jo 5:6
Subject verb predicate
____________________________
KAI EPESA EMPROSQEN TWN PODWN AUTOU PROSKUNHSAI AUTWi KAI LEGEI MOI, hORA MH· SUNDOULOS SOU EIMI KAI TWN ADELFWN SOU TWN ECONTWN THN MARTURIAN IHSOU· TWi QEWi PROSKUNHSON. hH GAR MARTURIA IHSOU ESTIN TO PNEUMA THS PROFHTEIAS Re 19:10
Subject – verb – predicate – Most translations
Predicate – verb – subject - Darby, NLT
So in conclusion, I suppose we will always have two opinions regarding this verse. It seems both ways are allowable, unless someone else has some information that can shed more light on this construction. However, as you indicated in your first email, the most probable answer is subject -predicate -verb. The only thing that might support those who believe the other is Paul's next phrase, TO PNEUMA KURIOU, but that seems to be a minority view.
Sincerely,
Blue Harris
________________________________
From: Stephen Carlson <stemmatic at gmail.com>
To: Blue Meeksbay <bluemeeksbay at yahoo.com>
Cc: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
Sent: Tue, February 16, 2010 4:51:27 AM
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] hO KURIOS TO PNEUMA - subject or predicate?
On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 8:04 PM, Blue Meeksbay <bluemeeksbay at yahoo.com> wrote:
> This is what Alford says about Chrysostom:
> “The principal mistaken interpretation…is that of Chrys., Theodoret,
> Theophyl, (Ecum., Estius, Schulz, - making TO PNEUMA the subject, and hO
> KUR. the predicate, which though perhaps (but would DE then have had its
> present position?) allowable, is against the context, hO KUR. being plainly
> resumed from hO KUR. in ver. 16.”
...
> As I said in my first reply to your email, I tend to agree with you, and I
> still do! ... but I wonder why Chrys., et al. would believe TO PNEUMA should
> be seen as the subject.
From my perspective, even though Alford clearly states that Chrysostom
took TO PNEUMA as the subject, that becomes much less clear when I
read what Chrysostom actually wrote (in the Greek, not in that English
translation that begged the question). I don't know what Theodoret or
Theophylact had to say, and it is possible that they were more
explicit than Chrysostom, but the case of Chrysostom is not clear to
me. Therefore, I am not wondering why Chrysostom would believe that
TO PNEUMA was the subject until I'm satisfied that he actually did
interpret it that way.
Stephen Carlson
More information about the B-Greek
mailing list