[B-Greek] The Elephant on the List

George F Somsel gfsomsel at yahoo.com
Thu Feb 18 15:28:07 EST 2010


There are a number of things which get lost in translation.  In some cases it's ambiguity which was present in the original but cannot be duplicated in translation.  In other cases it's the basis of the composition of larger passages where a word is used as a catchword to link pericopes to one another but which must be translated by different words rather than using the same word in all cases.  There is even the rare occassion when translators seem to have not quite gotten the passage right.  Normally I would say that if a person proposes something which is radically different from what all others have used then he is most likely in error, but there are occassions when someone does present a different view which has merit.  Perhaps most significant of all the reasons for studying the original is to become aware of the wordplay which frequently exists in the original.
 george
gfsomsel 


… search for truth, hear truth, 
learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth, 
defend the truth till death.


- Jan Hus
_________ 



----- Original Message ----
From: Mark Lightman <lightmanmark at yahoo.com>
To: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org; John M. Linebarger <jmlineb at comcast.net>
Sent: Thu, February 18, 2010 1:12:50 PM
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] The Elephant on the List


--- On Thu, 2/18/10, John M. Linebarger <jmlineb at comcast.net> wrote:




<I'd like to gently challenge one of the statements in Mark Lightman's post:

> The English Translations, taken as a whole, are always MORE clear than the Greek; they always convey MORE information about  the underlying Greek text than the Greek text itself does.  

How is this possible?  If a translation is more clear than the original, surely it is because the translators have chosen one of the interpretive options allowed by the original and reflected it consistently in their translation.  However, clarity is not the same as accuracy, and only an inspection of the original will reveal other interpretive options that are available.  I would contend that in those situations, the "clear" translation is actually achieved by *reducing* the amount of information present in the original.

This phenomenon, in my mind, by itself justifies the heavy investment in learning Greek and studying the text in the original.

What say you?

John M. Linebarger
Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA>
 
Great question, John,
 
I did not say that a translation is more accurate than the
original,   I said several good translations, (and of the GNT they
are all good) taken a a whole, are more precise than the
original, and  can almost never be proven to be  inaccurate.
 
Let me give you one  quick example taken from Oun Kwon's
recent excellent post on 1 Cor 11:32, whether UPO TOU
KURIOU goes with KRINOMENOI or PAIDEUOMEQA or
both.  I do not have access to the translations right now,
but Oun is absolutely right; some versions go one way,
some the other, some leave it ambiguous.  The Modern
Greek makes it definitely go with both by switching
to the active with two direct objects.  Taken as a whole,
the translations cover every option.  
 
But you say, "yeah, but we need to know the original to
determine which translation is right."  WRONG!  No
matter how well you know Greek, the Greek will almost
never settle this.  How often do we agree on the List?
I honestly do not think knowing Greek makes any
difference in  this and maybe most passages.
The general meaning is established,
The precise meaning cannot be established:,
Certainly it can not be
by discussing the Greek in English.
 
Plus, as I have said, the "interpretive options," to
use your phrase, almost never effect the meaning
in any important way.  We mess around around the
margins.  And if the range of possible meanings is
important, i.e.. theological, well, then we all agree
that you should not use the Greek to settle this.
We don't anyway.  Our  preconceived theology settles this,
as it should. 
 
But again, great question. 
 
Mark L


      
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