[B-Greek] RE; John 2:4 TI EMOI KAI SOI

Iver Larsen iver_larsen at sil.org
Mon Feb 22 23:49:24 EST 2010


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Blue Meeksbay" <bluemeeksbay at yahoo.com>
To: <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: 22. februar 2010 18:16
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] RE; John 2:4 TI EMOI KAI SOI


>I found the following from a book in my library. This is a used book I found a 
>number of years ago. I do not really know anything about this author, but his 
>name is George M. Lamsa. The book is called “Gospel Light, Comments from the 
>Aramaic and Unchanged Eastern Customs on the Teaching of Jesus.” It was 
>published by A. J. Holman Co., 1939.
>
> It is interesting what he says, but there is no documentation, so I cannot 
> vouch for the veracity of what he says. It seems he might be reading back from 
> current culture into ancient culture. Also I do not quite follow him how 
> making signs (from paragraph four), equates with what the text reads. 
> Nevertheless, I thought some on the list that were engaged in this thread 
> might enjoy what he relates. Does anyone know anything about him?

Yes, he does read his own culture, language and opinions into the text instead 
of doing a careful study of the original text in its own context. He has some 
useful cultural insights here and there, but take his exegesis/eisegesis with a 
rather big grain of salt.

For hWRA, the point is not what the corresponding word might mean in Aramaic, 
but how John uses this word. He uses it almost synonymously with KAIROS, but 
with a slight difference. While John only uses KAIROS in the interchange in Jhn 
7:6-8, "his/her/my hour" hWRA AUTOU/MOU is more common. I think John uses KAIROS 
in 7:6 because there is a contrast between "my right time" and "your right 
time". The point is what is customary or the opportune time. It refers to when 
the best time was to go to Jerusalem for the Festival of Shelters.  His brothers 
could join the crowd that was going from Nazareth, but Jesus needed to go on his 
own for various reasons. However, when Jesus says in 7:8

hO EMOS KAIROS OUPW PEPLHRWTAI (my right time has not yet reached)

he is using KAIROS in the same way that he is using hWRA, the time appointed by 
God, e.g.

7:30, 8:20 OUPW ELHLUQEI hH hWRA AUTOU (his appointed time had not yet arrived)
12:23 ELHLUQEN hH hWRA
12:27 DIA TOUTO HLQON EIS THN hWRAN TAUTHN
13:1 HLQEN AUTOU hH hWRA
17:1 ELHLUQEN hH hWRA

Jesus is waiting for the time appointed for him by God before he can do anything 
or before what is destined to happen, actually happens.

The hour in John 2:4 has nothing to do with whose turn it is to produce wine.

But I do agree that using "woman" to translate the vocative GUNH makes the text 
more rude that it was intended to be. That is a matter of poor translation. A 
literal translation often turns the text in the wrong direction.

Iver Larsen




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