[B-Greek] RE; John 2:4 TI EMOI KAI SOI

Eric Inman eric-inman at comcast.net
Tue Feb 23 16:01:16 EST 2010


What about ma'am or madam?

Eric Inman 

-----Original Message-----
From: b-greek-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org
[mailto:b-greek-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Gene Cockerham
Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 12:18 PM
To: 'Albert Pietersma'; 'Bill Yates'
Cc: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] RE; John 2:4 TI EMOI KAI SOI

Perhaps lady, or mother might offer a better English rendering though not
remain exactly true to the Greek.  This is the same area that I struggle in
- rendering the best literal text into the best cultural understanding of
the different language.  Perhaps, as well, a more complete understanding of
the contexts that GUNH would have been used in might assist us.  In English
woman certainly can take on a rude tone when used as an address, though it
does not when used in a simple statement of facts.

-----Original Message-----
From: b-greek-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org
[mailto:b-greek-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Albert Pietersma
Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 10:07 AM
To: Bill Yates
Cc: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] RE; John 2:4 TI EMOI KAI SOI


On Feb 23, 2010, at 3:23 AM, Bill Yates wrote:

> Iver,
>
> What would you suggest instead of 'woman' as a more accurate 
> translation - or to express the intent more faithfully?
>
> Many thanks

Epictetus 2.19.19 has an exact parallel to Joh 2:4, namely, TI EMOI KAI SOI,
ANQRWPE. So if Joh 2:4 is toned down for linguistic reasons, shouldn't the
same apply to Epictetus 2.19.19? The only difference would seem to be that
Epictetus gives more context.
Al

>
> Bill Yates
>
>
>
> On 23 Feb 2010, at 04:49, Iver Larsen wrote:
>
>>
>> The hour in John 2:4 has nothing to do with whose turn it is to 
>> produce wine.
>>
>> But I do agree that using "woman" to translate the vocative GUNH 
>> makes the text more rude that it was intended to be. That is a matter 
>> of poor translation. A literal translation often turns the text in 
>> the wrong direction.
>>
>
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-
Albert Pietersma PhD
21 Cross Street,
Weston ON Canada M9N 2B8
Email: albert.pietersma at sympatico.ca
Homepage: http://www.chass.utoronto.ca/~pietersm

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