[B-Greek] RE; John 2:4 TI EMOI KAI SOI
Albert Pietersma
albert.pietersma at sympatico.ca
Tue Feb 23 21:11:19 EST 2010
Joh 2.4 has relatively little context, as a result of which it is
difficult to determine the force of TI EMOI KAI EMOI, GUNAI. The
Epictetus instances of the same expression gives more context. Here is
the Epictetus passage, with considerable context.
Epictetus: Discourses, BOOK II. XIX. 14‑!9
Show me how you are in the habit of conducting yourself in a storm on
board ship. Do you bear in mind this logical distinction between good
and evil when the sail crackles, and you have screamed and some
fellow‑passenger, untimely humorous, comes up and says, "Tell me, I
beseech you by the gods, just what you were saying a little while ago.
Is it a vice to suffer shipwreck? Is there any vice in that ? Will you
not pick up a piece of wood and cudgel him ? "What have we to do with
you, fellow? (TI hHMIN KAI SOI) We are perishing and you come and
crack jokes!" And if Caesar sends for you to answer an accusation, do
you bear in mind this distinction? Suppose someone approaches you when
you are going in pale and trembling, and says, "Why are you trembling,
fellow? What is the affair that concerns you? Does Caesar inside the
palace bestow virtue and vice upon those who appear before him?" " Why
do you also make mock of me and add to my other ills?'' " But yet,
philosopher, tell me, why are you trembling? Is not the danger death,
or prison, or bodily pain, or exile, or disrepute ? Why' what else can
it be? Is it a vice at all, or anything that shares in vice? What was
it, then, that you used to call these things?" "What have I to do with
you, fellow? (TI EMOI KAI SOI) My own evils are enough for me." And in
that you are right. For your own evils are enough for you‑‑your
baseness, your cowardice, the bragging that you indulged in when you
were sitting in the lecture room. Why did you pride yourself upon
things that were not your own? Why did you call yourself a Stoic?
Al
On Feb 23, 2010, at 7:23 PM, Jeffrey B. Gibson wrote:
> Robert George wrote:
>> JG wrote (apparently with big, powerful microscope): Jesus was the
>> epitome of goodness and  would consequently never speak
>> disparagingly
>> of anyone, let alone (and especially) of his mother.
> I did not say that this was my position. I said that the belief that
> Jesus was the epitome of goodness was a hidden (and question begging)
> assumption behind the Vasile STANCU 's assertion that " The very fact
> that Jesus addresses his mother with that which we would translate by
> the English "woman" is proof enough that such a formula was not
> desrespectful."
>
> And in any case, what I DID say was that if was fallacious on a
> number
> of levels to attempt to determine the meaning of a Greek term by an
> appeal to what a given poster believes about the nature of Jesus'
> moral
> character.
>
> Jeffrey
>
> --
> Jeffrey B. Gibson, D.Phil. (Oxon)
> 1500 W. Pratt Blvd.
> Chicago, Illinois
> e-mail jgibson000 at comcast.net
>
> ---
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—
Albert Pietersma PhD
21 Cross Street,
Weston ON Canada M9N 2B8
Email: albert.pietersma at sympatico.ca
Homepage: http://www.chass.utoronto.ca/~pietersm
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