[B-Greek] Romans 8:17
Mark Lightman
lightmanmark at yahoo.com
Tue Feb 23 22:45:16 EST 2010
Ashley wrote:
<I am very much the beginner with respect to Greek.
However, I have a (probably very basic) question about Romans 8:17
eiper sumpaschomen
if, in fact, we suffer with him (NRSV)
if indeed we suffer together [with him] (Lexham)
provided we suffer with him (ESV)
Every translation I have read seems to agree that the meaning
is: suffer together with him (Christ). Is the connection to Jesus
purely contextual? Is it possible Paul could have meant: suffer
together, that is, with one another (and equally, with Christ)?
It seems to me from my very basic understanding that this
at least is a possible understanding – that the suffering together
refers not just to me suffering along with Christ but us suffering
together with one another and with Christ.>
Hi, Ashley,
Yes I think your take is correct here, the SUN covers both
Christ and us.
It reminds me for some reason of a great line from Homer which
Chariton (7:3) quotes from Iliad 9:49. Diomedes rejects
Agamemnon's suggestion to return home before Troy is
sacked. He says he and a buddy alone will take the city
because:
συν γαρ θεῳ ειληλουθμεν
"For we have come with a god."
Same thing. They have come to Troy with a god,
but have also come together.
Mark L
FWSFOROS MARKOS
--- On Tue, 2/23/10, Carl Conrad <cwconrad2 at mac.com> wrote:
From: Carl Conrad <cwconrad2 at mac.com>
Subject: [B-Greek] Romans 8:17
To: "B-Greek" <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Date: Tuesday, February 23, 2010, 7:56 PM
This was clearly intended for the list, but doesn't seem to have come through:
From: "Ashley Windus" <ashley at eastsidechurch.org.au>
Date: February 23, 2010 9:14:48 PM EST
To: <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Subject: Romans 8:17
I am very much the beginner with respect to Greek. However, I have a (probably very basic) question about Romans 8:17
eiper sumpaschomen
if, in fact, we suffer with him (NRSV)
if indeed we suffer together [with him] (Lexham)
provided we suffer with him (ESV)
Every translation I have read seems to agree that he meaning is: suffer together with him (Christ). Is the connection to Jesus purely contextual? Is it possible Paul could have meant: suffer together, that is, with one another (and equally, with Christ)? It seems to me from my very basic understanding that this at least is a possible understanding – that the suffering together refers not just to me suffering along with Christ but us suffering together with one another and with Christ.
Ashley Windus
c3 church eastside
4 Lingard Street, Merewether
NSW, Australia, 2291
Ph +61 2 4963 2884
www.eastsidechurch.org.au
---
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