[B-Greek] Romans 8:17

Mark Lightman lightmanmark at yahoo.com
Tue Feb 23 22:45:16 EST 2010


Ashley wrote:  
 
<I am very much the beginner with respect to Greek.
  However, I have a (probably very basic) question about Romans 8:17

eiper sumpaschomen
if, in fact, we suffer with him (NRSV)
if indeed we suffer together [with him] (Lexham)
provided we suffer with him (ESV)

Every translation I have read seems to agree that the meaning
 is: suffer together with him (Christ). Is the connection to Jesus
 purely contextual?  Is it possible Paul could have meant: suffer
 together, that is, with one another (and equally, with Christ)?
  It seems to me from my very basic understanding that this
 at least is a possible understanding – that the suffering together
 refers not just to me suffering along with Christ but us suffering
 together with one another and with Christ.>

Hi, Ashley,
 
Yes I think your take is correct here, the SUN covers both
Christ and us.
 
It reminds me for some reason of a great line from Homer which
Chariton (7:3) quotes from Iliad 9:49.  Diomedes rejects
Agamemnon's suggestion to return home before Troy is
sacked.  He says he and a buddy alone will take the city
because: 
 
συν γαρ θεῳ ειληλουθμεν
"For we have come with a god."
 
Same thing.  They have come to Troy with a god,
but have also come together. 

Mark L


FWSFOROS MARKOS

--- On Tue, 2/23/10, Carl Conrad <cwconrad2 at mac.com> wrote:


From: Carl Conrad <cwconrad2 at mac.com>
Subject: [B-Greek] Romans 8:17
To: "B-Greek" <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Date: Tuesday, February 23, 2010, 7:56 PM


This was clearly intended for the list, but doesn't seem to have come through:

From: "Ashley Windus" <ashley at eastsidechurch.org.au>
Date: February 23, 2010 9:14:48 PM EST
To: <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Subject: Romans 8:17


I am very much the beginner with respect to Greek.  However, I have a (probably very basic) question about Romans 8:17

eiper sumpaschomen
if, in fact, we suffer with him (NRSV)
if indeed we suffer together [with him] (Lexham)
provided we suffer with him (ESV)

Every translation I have read seems to agree that he meaning is: suffer together with him (Christ). Is the connection to Jesus purely contextual?  Is it possible Paul could have meant: suffer together, that is, with one another (and equally, with Christ)?  It seems to me from my very basic understanding that this at least is a possible understanding – that the suffering together refers not just to me suffering along with Christ but us suffering together with one another and with Christ.


Ashley Windus

c3 church eastside
4 Lingard Street, Merewether
NSW, Australia, 2291
Ph +61 2 4963 2884
www.eastsidechurch.org.au
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