[B-Greek] Do we have a remnant of Stephen's verbal speech inActs 7:15-16?
Blue Meeksbay
bluemeeksbay at yahoo.com
Fri Feb 26 11:46:43 EST 2010
Hi Iver:
Thank you, that was an excellent point! Stephen's speech was really condensed, wasn't it?
What is interesting is that Gen: 33:19 says Jacob, “… bought the piece of land where he had pitched his tent from the hand of the sons of Hamor, Shechem’s father, for one hundred pieces of money.”
Acts 7:16 says, Abraham purchased the “tomb” for a sum of money from the sons of Hamor in Shechem.
Genesis does not say Jacob purchased a tomb, but that he purchased a piece of land. When one looks at Gen. 49:30 one realizes that there is a distinction sometimes between a tomb and the field that surrounds the tomb. Gen. 49:30 says “…in the cave that is in the field of Machpelah, which is before Mamre, in the land of Canaan, which Abraham bought ‘along with the field’ from Ephron the Hittite for a burial site.”
We do the same thing today. One might purchase a cemetery plot, but later, a subsequent relative might decide to buy the plots around the original plot and turn it into a private family gravesite.
Therefore, Abraham bought the tomb, and years later Jacob bought the land around the tomb.
Therefore, the two texts do not contradict each other, they supplement each other.
One last thing I just thought about after re-reading Carl Conrad’s post:
<You are aware, aren't you, that all ancient written texts were composed in order to be read aloud, not read silently by parties receiving the text. What' important about that is that we need to be aware that all ancient Greek texts were composed with a view to how LISTENERS would HEAR them, not how silent readers might ponder a sequence of words that they could deconstruct and reconstruct while looking at a piece of writing.>
Dr. Conrad showed the grammar was not awkward since it is common for a singular verb to take on a plural add-on subject. Therefore, I was wrong to suggest the grammar was awkward. It makes perfect sense when it is read grammatically. However, if the premise is accepted that all written texts were composed in order to be spoken, (which, however, I think there are exceptions to that rule, the Gospel of Luke was a private communication originally written to be read, not spoken, i.e. according to Luke 1:2-4 –“ just as those who from the beginning were eyewitnesses and servants of the word have handed them down to us, it seemed fitting for me as well, having investigated everything carefully from the beginning, to write it out for you in consecutive order, most excellent Theophilus; so that you might know the exact truth about the things you have been taught.”), could not the passage in Acts still be understood differently when spoken and not read?
As someone who regularly speaks in public, this makes perfect sense to me. It seems, that with the right intonation, and pauses, my original premise could still hold true. In other words, it seems a different conclusion can be reached orally, then when it is read grammatically. So, I am still wondering what is Acts 7: 15-16 really saying. Perhaps, this is so subjective it could never be proven either way.
Sincerely,
Blue Harris
________________________________
From: Iver Larsen <iver_larsen at sil.org>
To: Blue Meeksbay <bluemeeksbay at yahoo.com>; Mark Lightman <lightmanmark at yahoo.com>
Cc: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
Sent: Thu, February 25, 2010 9:11:41 PM
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Do we have a remnant of Stephen's verbal speech inActs 7:15-16?
----- Original Message ----- From: "Blue Meeksbay" <bluemeeksbay at yahoo.com>
To: "Mark Lightman" <lightmanmark at yahoo.com>
Cc: <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: 26. februar 2010 04:10
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Do we have a remnant of Stephen's verbal speech inActs 7:15-16?
> Hi Mark!
>
> Good points! Maybe, awkward was not the right word. What I meant was there could have been a clearer way to state the facts (if my assumption is correct) – thus the different translations. It seems when one writes something down one tries to make sure it is clear enough so it cannot be misconstrued. Obviously, we fail more than we succeed at such a task. However, there seems to be more latitude in spontaneous oratory which, while it might be understood by the hearers, if written down could be less than clear.
It may be helpful to think about what the hearers already know and what Stephen assumed they would know.
1. Abraham bought the Machpelah cave in Hebron from Ephron, son of Zohar, and buried Sara there.
2. According to tradition, his son, Jacob, was also buried there besides Sara and Abraham.
3. Jacob had bought a piece of land in Shechem from the sons of Hamor for a bunch of silver money.
Now the text below says that (the old man) Jacob went to Egypt and died there, as did his 12 sons (our "fathers"). Their bones were all brought out of Egypt to be buried in the Promised Land. The text is very short and may be telescoped because the hearers already knew that Jacob was buried in Machpelah and "our fathers" were buried at the shrine in Shechem. So, what may well have happened is that the procession first stopped in Hebron and buried Jacob there, and then went on to Shechem and buried "our fathers" in Shechem. The text suggests that Abraham bought the land in Shechem, but as far as we know it was Jacob who did it. Abraham had been there and may have set his eye on a piece of land, or maybe even made a down payment, but we don't know that. At least he received permission to build an altar there, and that might culturally be interpreted as if he had put stakes on that piece of land at the oak of Moreh. Even if the text is not clear in all
details, if people know the facts already, they can still get the intended meaning. It is possible that tradition at the time had credited the purchase of land in Shechem to Abraham rather than Jacob, because he built an altar there, and Abraham had higher status than Jacob. I don't know.
Iver Larsen
>> In Acts 7:15-16 Stephen says the following:
>>
>> KATEBH DE IAKWB EIS AIGUPTON KAI ETELEUTHSEN AUTOS KAI hOI PATERES hHMWN, KAI METETEQHSAN EIS SUCEM KAI ETEQHSAN EN TWi MNHMATI hWi WNHSATO ABRAAM TIMHS ARGURIOU PARA TWN hUIWN EMMWR EN SUCEM
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