[B-Greek] B-Greek Year End Awards
Leonard Isaksson
leonardo1orchardcity at mac.com
Fri Jan 8 08:54:07 EST 2010
You are now in the history books. For this award, but also in that you
have shown a gracious spirit.
One primer that I gained from in studying Greek was the "Teach
yourself" book on ancient Greek by T. Kinchin Smith and Mr. Melluish,
which did not claim to ready the student for reading a Greek text,
other than simpler Greek. Yet, it did introduce one to Greek, not
leaving out the optative in the Greek verb, and one meets variety of
Greek authors, including Sappho, and that in more of the Aeolic look,
as I remember it. Besides that, being along the lines of a school
type of primer, it had cartoon stories in it, like the cartoon of the
lion and the man illustrating the prepositions.
What does that have to do with accents?
These fellows, Smith and Melluish, left out the accents entirely. As
they put it, the Greeks of classical times did not need them, why do
we?, they were added later. So too with John Wenham.
On the other hand, I find having both of the breathing marks available
to be useful, mostly to help with remembering what is what, as in those
little short words and letters that express meaning. They do help me.
Leonard Isaksson
On Jan 5, 2010, at 7:18 AM, Sarah Madden wrote:
> The wisdom of John Sanders and Vasile Stancu re. keeping the smooth
> breathing mark, whose utility I (foolishly?) once questioned, makes me
> ALMOST think I should concede my HAWKEYE PIERCE AWARD FOR THE
> ORTHOGRAPHIC
> REFORM LEAST LIKELY TO TAKE PLACE BECAUSE IT MAKES TOO MUCH SENSE, but
> I
> nevertheless plan to keep my graciously bestowed award (thanks, Mark
> [FWSFOROS MARKOS]!). (I mean, how often does one ever receive such an
> award???)
>
>
>
> Both John and Vasile make excellent points that, if the smooth
> breathing
> mark never existed, scribes occasionally could have forgotten to add
> the
> rough breathing mark, but in the current two-mark system, they had to
> make a
> judgment and would have been less inclined to accidentally insert an
> incorrect breathing mark. Thus it is more likely that an intentional
> smooth
> breathing mark is accurate. Point well made, gentlemen!
>
>
>
> Sarah Madden (aka Hawkeye Pierce) ><>
>
> Maryland USA
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 2:26 AM, Vasile STANCU <stancu at mail.dnttm.ro>
> wrote:
>
>> I would endorse John's view. In everyday quality related documents it
>> is
>> quite usual (if not mandatory) that when a certain variable/parameter
>> is not
>> applicable, an N/A ('not applicable') sign is indicated. Even though
>> a blank
>> box would imply the same, by indicating an N/A the idea is conveyed
>> that the
>> individual who filled in the document made a judgement in that sense.
>> It is,
>> I would say, assuming full responsibility for the respective
>> action/decision. The same with the spirits: if both are indicated, I
>> know
>> that the writer/editor/etc. has made the respective judgement.
>>
>> Vasile Stancu
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: b-greek-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:
>> b-greek-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of John Sanders
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 8:52 AM
>> To: Mark Lightman
>> Cc: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
>> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] B-Greek Year End Awards
>>
>> In reference to THE HAWKEYE PIERCE AWARD FOR THE
>>
>> ORTHOGRAPHIC REFORM LEAST LIKELY TO
>>
>> TAKE PLACE BECAUSE IT MAKES TOO MUCH SENSE:
>>
>> Sarah Madden, for suggesting that we retain rough breathings
>>
>> but get rid of smooth readings.
>>
>>
>>
>> If I may, I would like to come to the support of Aristophanes of
>> Byzantium.
>> I fear many may not understand the significance of using two symbols
>> for
>> the aspirate (one for smooth breathing and one for rough breathing).
>> At
>> one
>> time, many years ago, I also thought along similar lines as they who
>> wish
>> to
>> eliminate the redundant symbol, but my work requirements changed that
>> for
>> me.
>>
>>
>>
>> When I was a young engineer I was required to create and maintain
>> lists in
>> which the items would be in one of two states, either the “is” state
>> or the
>> “not is” state: either it would be aspirated or it would not be, it
>> would
>> be completed or it would not be, it would contain X or it would not,
>> etc.
>> I
>> knew that only one symbol was required to list these items and so I
>> constructed my lists accordingly, using a symbol to record the “is”
>> state
>> and no symbol to record the “not is” state.
>>
>>
>>
>> Instead of the one problem that I thought would be involved in these
>> lists,
>> I had two problems to deal with: the expected problem which I will
>> label
>> as
>> mis-identification, that is where one identifies the “is” state as
>> “not is”
>> and vice versa; and the unexpected problem which I will label as
>> non-identification, that is for what ever reason one does not label
>> the
>> state one way or the other. Assuming one has the knowledge to
>> recognize
>> the
>> “is” state from the “not is” state, the problem of mis-identification
>> is
>> minimal, especially compared to the problem of non-identification.
>> But non
>> –identification could not be distinguished from the “not is” state.
>> This
>> created a quality control problem. Although theoretically not
>> necessary, I
>> found that using two symbols, one for the “is” state and one for the
>> “not
>> is” state improved the quality of my lists immeasurably.
>>
>>
>>
>> So when I see a list of words with the both the rough breathing and
>> smooth
>> breathing marks, lists such as the Iliad, etc., then I have much more
>> confidence in their accuracy than if they only had one such mark.
>>
>>
>>
>>> --
>>> John Sanders
>>> Suzhou, China
>>>
>> ---
>> B-Greek home page: http://www.ibiblio.org/bgreek
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>>
>>
>> ---
>> B-Greek home page: http://www.ibiblio.org/bgreek
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>>
>
>
>
> --
> Sarah ><>
> sarah.r.madden at gmail.com
> work: 301.429.8189
> ---
> B-Greek home page: http://www.ibiblio.org/bgreek
> B-Greek mailing list
> B-Greek at lists.ibiblio.org
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